Interview with Randy Wysong | Unbekoming
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​Randy Wysong’s intellectual odyssey, detailed in this interview, began in the 1970s, navigating the rigid doctrines of religion and the secular dogmas of abiogenesis, evolution, and materialism imparted by university education. Neither framework could account for life’s complexities—coordinated cellular colonies in a human body, a sea anemone’s brainless memory, or psychic communications relaying details known only to the deceased. Materialists claimed consciousness emerged from brain chemicals, yet no experiment has demonstrated random molecules spawning free will. Supporting works, such as Supernormal, document controlled studies of telepathy, while Morphic Resonance proposes a non-material field linking collective memory across time. They hadn’t proven consciousness was mere matter, as materialists insisted; instead, phenomena like near-death experiences and past-life regressions, rigorously studied, pointed to a mind beyond physicality.
 
This recognition—that there is certainly more to this realm than reductionists assert—frames Wysong’s exploration of consciousness as fundamental, echoing Max Planck’s view in Why Materialism is Baloney that "matter is derivative from consciousness." Quantum mechanics, where observation alters outcomes, and cases of hydrocephalus patients functioning with minimal brain tissue challenge materialist assumptions. Likewise, The Biology of Belief reveals belief’s influence on cellular biology, suggesting mind shapes matter. "We are not biological robots," Wysong argues, noting heart transplant recipients inheriting donor traits, as if consciousness permeates all parts. By reducing humans to mere matter, educational systems obscure an immortal essence, a truth this discussion unravels, provocatively urging readers to question the materialist paradigm.
 
With thanks to Randy Wysong.
 
1. Randy, could you please tell us about your background and the journey that led you to your current research on consciousness and the relationship between mind and matter?
 
I have always been perplexed by my existence and the vast unknown. Raised in religion, questions were answered by doctrine and dogma. But beliefs dead-ended inquiry and were not satisfying.
 
University implanted abiogenesis, evolution, modern cosmology, cosmogony, atheism, and communism. Unable to defeat these secular beliefs with religion, this secular materialism seemed the intellectual thing to adopt.
 
But the wonder and complexity of the biological and physical world remained perplexing. Deep studies in the sciences post grad and with clinical and surgical experiences deepened the wonder. Although it claimed to, secular materialism did not have all the answers. This left deep truth enigmatic and seemingly unobtainable.
 
The God thing lingered, which led to exploration of various religions and their origins. But this did nothing but prove that all religions, their holy books, and their gods were man-made, not God made.
 
In this process, the creation-evolution controversy was researched extensively and led to the writing of the first book on the subject that had neither an evolutionary nor materialistic bias.

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​(Not trying to sell books here. This and everything linked in this interview is available free on the website.)
 
As a result of delving into the sciences as they relate to origins, it became clear that atheistic abiogenesis and evolution were actually faith-based, pseudoscientific secular religions. On the other hand, actual science and logic forced the conclusion of intelligent creation. But that Creator is incomprehensible and has nothing to do with man-made religions and their man-made gods.

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​But creation did not answer who, what, or why I was. The only conclusion possible at that point was that we are created, but physical and mortal. Death was apparently a deep and irrevocable sleep.
 
That conclusion changed with a viewing of John Edward, a psychic, on television. He claimed to be getting messages from dead people who were related to individuals in the audience. The messages from the passed people contained information and detail that only the person in the audience could have known.

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​Edward was evidently communicating with dead people.
 
After telling my daughter about psychics communicating with the dead, she decided to call a psychic for a reading. The psychic knew nothing about her or our family. One of the contacts the psychic made was with a dead man who was noticing my daughter's young daughter's hockey skills. He said, "You gotta put a golf club in her hands." There is only one person in the world who would say that, Dex, my wife's past father, who was an avid golfer and would often say that exact phraseology about kids when he was alive with us.
 
This could only mean we do not die, but rather just revert to our immortal spiritual essence.
 
This opened a whole new world of investigation and discovery in science and consciousness. Not only is it self-evident and rational that consciousness survives physical death, but personal experience and peer-reviewed, blinded clinical studies prove it.
 
2. In your research, you state that "no observation or experiment has ever proven consciousness can spontaneously emerge from random chemicals." What led you to this conclusion, and how has it shaped your understanding of human consciousness?
 
First off, the statement stands on its own. It's obvious to any rational person that chemicals do not have consciousness and the free will that comes with it. Chemicals behave only as they are programmed by natural laws.

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​Therefore, it cannot be true that consciousness emerges from brain chemicals, as is the common materialistic claim.
 
Nobody can provide an experiment proving consciousness can come from a chemical reaction.
 
Nor can such an experiment ever be successful, since that would mean all synthetic chemistry would be impossible. Chemists require that chemicals react in only certain predictable ways. They do so because they obey natural laws. They do not have free will or consciousness.
 
Further evidence is documented in out-of-body and near-death experiences, as well as past life regressions.
 
See chapters 41 and 42, where this is documented more fully.
 
3. You make an interesting comparison between the human brain and the internet, noting that despite the internet's vast complexity, it lacks consciousness and free will. Could you elaborate on why you believe this distinction is significant?
 
Computers and AI are driven by algorithms, programs that demand certain specific actions. That's the opposite of free will and consciousness.
 
Just as chemicals are bound by natural laws to limit in their actions, AI is bound to the limits of its algorithms.

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​The internet, the most complex human invention ever, consists of billions of computers electromagnetically linked together. Just one Intel processor measuring less than a square inch in just one computer has well over 1.5 billion transistors on it. Billions of computers times billions of transistors far exceed the connections in a human brain.

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​But all of that material computing power is not conscious, nor does it have free will. It's robotically bound to and limited by the program commands from human brains and physical laws.
 
Our essence, our self-aware volitional identity, is holistic and extrinsic to the bounds of the matter in our brains.
 
Developed more fully here: 41. FREE WILL PROVES WE ARE OTHER
 
4. You discuss several fascinating human feats that you believe can't be explained by chemical reactions or electrical impulses alone, such as Akira Haraguchi's ability to recite pi to over 83,000 decimal places. What do you think these extraordinary abilities reveal about our nature?
 
Such feats require a complexity not explained by materialistic, spontaneous, abiogenic, evolutionary, chemical, or electrical processes. Some feats, like Akira's pi out to the umpteenth digit, may be able to be duplicated by computers. He, on the other hand, can decide if, when, and where to do them. This conscious free will is beyond the ability of chemicals or computers.

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​Extraordinary skills and psychic abilities reflect a level of consciousness underneath our mechanical, material brain. They emerge regularly for some, less so for others. They may come unannounced or by choice.
 
They provide a glimpse of the capabilities we have in our spiritual essence.
 
Go here for other examples of extraordinary abilities: 42. MIND OUTSIDE MATTER | PART 1
 
5. The phenomenon of people with hydrocephalus who function normally despite having minimal brain tissue challenges conventional understanding of brain function. How do these cases inform your views on consciousness?
 
If the brain is the source of our thinking, then all of us thinking people need brains. We are also told that the bigger the brain, the smarter we are.
 
That belief, however, is proven untrue by things like this.

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​Further evidence that the brain is not the source of consciousness: 42. MIND OUTSIDE MATTER | PART 4
 
6. You mention several examples from the animal kingdom—compass termites, bee colonies, driver ants—that exhibit collective intelligence without a central brain. What implications do these examples have for our understanding of consciousness?
 
They demonstrate that consciousness must reside outside of physicality.
 
For example, a sea anemone has no brain, ganglia (nests of intermingled nerves), or even concentrated neurons, yet all its parts coordinate. Each tentacle also has a memory. If offered a trick non-food object, the tentacle will remember and reject it the next time it's offered. Only that one brainless tentacle and none of the others remember the trick.

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​Consider the human body. We are colonies of 30 trillion cells. Inside each cell are trillions of atoms, molecules, and organelles. All of these elements coordinate second by second, en masse, many moving at lightning speed, to make life possible.
 
There is no physical coordinator. It all happens as if by magic, moment by moment, year after year.
 
A nonmaterial mind, beyond comprehension, is the only possible maestro.
 
See Part 5 here: 42. MIND OUTSIDE MATTER | PART 5
 
7. The case of plants communicating, remembering, and making decisions without brains is particularly fascinating. How do you think this challenges materialistic views of intelligence?
 
Materialists don't even venture to argue that plants have brains. However, plants have been proven to communicate and have memory.
 
For example, trees being foraged or invaded by insects will send a message of warning to fellow trees miles away. In response, the trees receiving the message will increase the production of tannins and other chemicals that are noxious and toxic to the attackers. Roots of plants also communicate back and forth through brainless soil fungi and other microorganisms.
 
The Venus Flytrap emits a blue glow to attract insects. It has the intelligence to count to 20 seconds before closing the trap. This permits time to decide if what lands in it is living or just debris. It also decides whether an insect caught is a pollinator that should not be trapped or a meal that should. All decisions are made with no brain.

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​In other examples, plants were tested with a polygraph to see if they could sense people's intentions or be alarmed at the presence of a plant murderer. They could.
 
Research has also shown similar responses in bacteria.
 
8. You refer to quantum mechanics and cite Max Planck's view that "consciousness is fundamental" and "matter is derivative from consciousness." How has quantum physics influenced your thinking about consciousness?
 
Quantum mechanics delves beyond the atom and its protons, neutrons, and electrons into a world of non-material quanta.
 
You don't have to be a quantum physicist to come up with the same conclusion--parts are made of smaller parts, which are made of smaller parts ... ad infinitum into the world of nothingness in the material sense.

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​But underneath it all, can't be just nothing. It must be something.
 
Planck, considered the father of modern physics, demonstrated in the famous double-slit experiment that observation can change matter and energy.
 
His conclusion:
 
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness."
 
The nothingness that lies beneath all of reality, including us, is mind.
 
See: 42. MIND OUTSIDE MATTER | PART 7
 
9. You suggest that our educational systems have promoted a materialistic worldview that reduces humans to "biological robots." How do you think this perspective affects society's understanding of human potential?
 
If we think we are nothing but mortal matter, then nothing much matters. If we are the product of a dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest evolutionary process, then we must strive to be the fittest by any means necessary.
 
This mindset repudiates selflessness, empathy, and ethics. It means do what you must to get ahead, no matter the cost to others.
 
We see that played out every day in governments, industry, and society.
 
However, the reality is that we are created and imbued with reason, free will, conscience, and love. We have chosen an Earth-life for growing into more selfless, righteous, and loving beings.
 
It's important to note that these conclusions have nothing to do with man-made religions and their man-made gods.
 
10. The heart transplant cases you mention, where recipients apparently adopted traits of their donors, are intriguing. What do you think these cases suggest about where consciousness resides in the body?
 
All we can know for sure is that consciousness is not a derivative of matter, be it the brain, heart, or elsewhere in the body.
 
Moreover, reality is holistic and interconnected. Living things, even if disassembled, retain memory of self as shown here.

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​34. MATTER IS AN ILLUSION
 
The fact that organ transplants can result in features of the donor appearing in the recipient further bears this out.
 
11. You draw parallels between human organs functioning as "colonies" and the coordinated movements of animal swarms or flocks. Could you explain how this holographic view of nature informs your understanding of consciousness?
 
Swarms of millions of birds flying at 50 mph with no collisions require intelligent direction. There is no clear leader in the swarm, yet the movement of the mass is orchestrated.

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42. MIND OUTSIDE MATTER | PART 5
 
This indicates an overriding intelligence.
 
Our bodies are like swarms of cells, atoms, and quanta--all on autopilot. Our will doesn't control this movement of these countless elements. There is no identifiable physical leader inside the body.
 
Something else, a master consciousness, is evidently in control.
 
12. In your research, you mention "paranormal and preternatural phenomena" as evidence for mind existing beyond matter. Which of these phenomena do you find most compelling as evidence?
 
Psychic communication with the dead, even with animals, is very convincing because it's something anyone can personally experience by enlisting the help of a skilled psychic.
 
No argument can ever defeat direct experience.
 
Many other lines of evidence also prove mind beyond matter.
 
13. You make references to a "holographic" nature of consciousness. Could you explain what you mean by this concept and how it differs from conventional views?
 
The conventional view of consciousness is that it is merely an epiphenomenon of brain matter. In this view, we are merely the chemical and electrical processes in our brain and body.
 
But matter is but a snippet of a reality that extends far beyond matter.
 

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​34. MATTER IS AN ILLUSION
 
14. You suggest that we have a "pre-body history" and "post-body future." Could you elaborate on what you mean by this and what evidence points to this conclusion?
 
It means we are immortal beings, created by an incomprehensible, apparently infinite, and timeless mind.
 
Perhaps the best evidence of this comes from psychic communication with the dead and past life regression--both of which have decades of controlled studies conducted in Universities and peer-reviewed publications.
 
Past life regression occurs with Hypnotists and psychiatrists who help subjects regress to past lives on Earth. This can result in the cure of emotional problems not alleviated by any other means. Some people suffer suppressed carry-over memories of traumas and relationships from previous lives. Healing results once these events are recalled. Scars and birthmarks have also been explained by such things as gunshots and knife wounds in past lives.

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​43. DEATH IS A RETURN
 
15. Throughout your writing, you distinguish between man-made religions and the concept of intelligent causation. How do you separate these ideas in your thinking?
 
This is done to remove an impasse created when people think I am trying to drive them to a religion when talking about creation or life after death. Many are repulsed by the cruel history of religions, their nonsense, and their demand for blind faith.
 
Religions and their gods are all traceable to humans. They were created originally in an attempt to explain the mysteries of life and the physical world. Unable to tap into the cause of lightning, sun, moon, stars, birth, death, and everything else that original people on Earth were faced with, they created gods. These were human-like beings who gave comfort by explaining it all. These gods were all big, powerful mommies and daddies in the sky.

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​Religious leaders emerged who claimed a direct line to these gods. This gave these leaders enormous power over the minds and lives of the population. Religions morphed into governments. To this day, these institutions show their true purpose, power, and control.
 
The attempt at knowing everything by creating human-like gods, fails reason and evidence, the tools real adults should use. 
 
Those tools lead away from beliefs, to knowing we are created immortal beings. The creation itself proves a creative hand because all of physical reality consists of complex functional machinery down to the atomic level. Complex functional machinery requires intelligent causation.
 
The Creator must be incomprehensible because the reality we are in is incomprehensible. We were created with free will, reason, intuition, and conscience, the only tools we need to guide our lives. With those tools, we can come to know reality to the extent possible, know right from wrong, distinguish between belief and knowing, and grow into more righteous and loving beings. 
 
No god religions or secular materialistic religions are necessary. We have chosen to come to Earth to use those innate gifts to grow from the travails Earth-life presents.
 
Unfortunately, most of us do the lazy thing and set reason, free will, conscience, and intuition aside by replacing them with beliefs. It takes a thirst for truth and resurrecting those gifts to replace what we have been told to believe with actual knowing.

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16. You mention that "government has a vested interest in what we believe" regarding consciousness. Could you elaborate on why you think materialistic views might serve institutional interests?
 
The materialistic view promoted by government, its education, and media diminishes us into insignificant specs, biological robots, in a meaningless universe. As such, we are hopeless and dependent on the powers that be for our sustenance and safety.
 
To accomplish this, there is no end to the stories and falsehoods we are brainwashed with.
 
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."—William Casey, CIA Director 1981
 
"A lie repeated a thousand times becomes a truth."—Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda
 
"If there were twenty ways of telling the truth and only one way of telling a lie, the government would find it out. It's in the nature of governments to tell lies." —George Bernard Shaw
 
"The rules are simple: They lie to us, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, but they keep lying to us ..."—Elena Gorokhova
 
Power, control, and serving self-interests are what government has become. There is no better way to do that than to give the population the impression they are helpless and dependent on powers and experts claiming to have their best interests at heart.
 

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​We, who choose beliefs rather than knowing, are the fundamental cause of government control and the woes of the world.
 
17. You describe a constant sense of self that persists throughout one's life, regardless of age. How does this observation inform your understanding of consciousness as something separate from the physical body?
 
This self-reflection is something anyone can do. Think back to your earliest memories of self. No matter how old you are, you are the same you.
 
We gain knowledge, skills, experience, and some wisdom, but they are peripheral to who we were and are underneath.

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That sense of self also seems unrelated to our physical body and brain. Particularly so since the brain gets smaller with age.
 
The most important change, if we can accomplish it by engaging Creator-given conscience and love, is becoming better, more righteous, more loving beings.
 
That is our purpose in Earth-life. We can choose to come here and try over and over until we have learned our lessons and become the better being we know we should be.
 
18. What are you currently focused on in your research, and how can readers stay connected with your work if they're interested in exploring these ideas further?
 
Learning about and exposing false beliefs wherever they are found is the continuing objective.
 
If interested in coming along on this journey, explore As If Thinking Matters, subscribe to the newsletter there, posts are on X and on Quora, where I write most frequently and debate daily with those who cherish their beliefs dearly. Come, say something nice to offset the hate from those who don't like their beliefs challenged.
 
Everything is free, including my books, in the hope of reaching as many truth-seekers as possible.
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