2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

Wysong:

Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

It is unreasonable that the incomprehensible Creator of the universe could be anthropomorphized into writing a book, a book that doesn't even have any original copies.

⌕ Click to enlarge

If that is an opinion, it is the only reasonable one possible based on what we can and cannot know about the Creator which can only be inferred from the creation itself.

Nemos: 

This is indeed your opinion, based on the information you have. I do not fault you for holding this opinion, but logically speaking, you're attempting to prove God is unknowable,

Wysong: 

You agreed in the preliminaries to this debate that the Creator is unknowable and ineffable There is no way for us physical beings to know the Creator other than contemplating the Creation. Similarly, we cannot know and understand infinity. (documentation) To attempt it is like a dog trying to solve a math problem or a fish trying to play the piano.

People go to religions and holy books because they want to understand their maker and because of fear of death. Religions claim to know what the Creator thinks and requires to enter heaven and escape hell.

This mimics people relying on government like a religion and then masking up, isolating, and submitting to injections with unknown ingredients to escape the hell of a supposed Covid virus.

Out of fear and ignorance, people surrender to self-claimed authorities rather than take personal responsibility to become informed.

In the case of Covid, ferreting out truth amidst a sea of state-sponsored propaganda clearly reveals that it is a fraud. (documentation)

In the case of the Creator, it can be easily learned on our own that the Creator exists and that we are immortal beings in a temporary mortal shell. We choose to come to Earth to learn how to become higher beings through Creator-given conscience, reason, and free will.

There is thus no need for religions, holy books, or fear of death since death has been scientifically proven to just be a change back to our otherworldly spiritual being, not an end to our existence. (documentation)

which discounts divine acts from what can only be God who was speaking through those acts to get us to know Him better.

Wysong: 

It would need to be proven that those acts are "divine," that there could be no other cause for them, and that they could not be done by humans.

The divine acts and commands described in the Bible--stoning disobedient children to death, raping young war victims, looting, killing, and torturing millions, etc. (see below Bible quotes), get us to know a creature, a man-made horror fictional creature that we should not want to know.

You're almost trying to make the same argument that God is not real.

Wysong: 

Correct. The invented YHWH/Jesus god of the Bible is unreal and thus capable of nothing other than what psychopathic humans have manufactured about it--laced with a few truths here and there to lend credibility like is done with any fictional story.

The Creator, on the other hand, is real but has nothing to do with man-made religious books and god stories.

In this paradigm, being so unknowable and without guidance as to the personality and identity of YHWH – God is neutered of having any involvement in the affairs of His creation by simple virtue of the fact we'd be too ignorant to divine the messages even if he tried to send them. But we are not, history has recorded many such miracles and divine acts.

Wysong: 

The Creator is not neutered just because we can't personify it into a book writer.

And why would the Creator author a book thousands of years ago when writing and publishing were in their primitive stages? Why not now with the internet, email, videos, and other efficient means of communication and verification worldwide?

We don't come to Earth to spend our time trying to communicate with a Creator we left in the spirit realm. We're here to grow through physical experiences using our Creator-given free will, conscience, and reasoning powers. Documented here.

Tyre and the Bible

Petra and the Bible

Babylon and the Bible

Egypt and the Bible

Sodom and Gomorrah, anyone? You can find unnaturally pure sulphur balls the size of tennis balls embedded in stone all over the place. They rained from the sky and destroyed the place, as scripture records.

Or what about the Great Flood itself?

Wysong: 

So what? If historical accounts prove Creator authorship, anyone who writes a history book would be a divine agent.

There are also examples of Blind Prophecies such as:

Daniel 2 – The Prophetic Timeline – Nebuchadnezzar's Dream

Daniel 7 – Daniel's Dream of Four Beasts

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And many that are not so blind such as:

The Banned Prophecy of Yeshuah (Jesus Christ) 400BC (Fulfilled)

Wysong: 

All such Biblical prophesies require foreign language interpretation, historical context, original manuscripts (which do not exist), and undisputed archeology and historical proof. Nobody is qualified to draw conclusions about whether the Creator wrote a book from any of the above, particularly farmers in the field toiling from dawn to dusk to feed their families.

Moreover, prophesy, even if true, is not proof of divine authorship. See Topic #7 for proof that prophesy can occur without having anything to do with a Bible-god.

To say "Diverting the debate to arguments from the book itself, using hermeneutics, eschatology, history, prophesy, Bible scholars, etc. avoids the essential #1 question in this debate and are red herring logical fallacies." is to put forth ones own opinion over facts, evidence, and logical deductive reasoning while simultaneously rejecting countering evidence or reason. This is, itself, a false argument and logically fallacious.

Wysong: 

Not sure what your claim is here. I have not expressed opinion. It is obvious that the Creator of infinity and the incomprehensible complexity of even the physical world cannot be reduced to a human-like creature as the Bible does.

You argue that God cannot be known because we cannot trust the Bible,

Wysong: 

No. I said, and you agreed, that the Creator cannot be known. That conclusion has nothing to do with a book. The Creator cannot be known by us physical humans confined to our physical dimensions because the Creator is in an entirely different plane of some sort. A man-made book, the Bible, provides no proof otherwise.

I argue that we can trust the original scriptures (which admittedly were corrupted and perverted in modern English translations.)

Wysong: 

There is no way to know what is or is not corrupted since there are no originals to compare anything to, only copies of copies of copies of noncontemporary hearsay.

In attempting to prove God is unknowable, you discount the most important witness: God himself. Whom says "Test all things; hold fast what is good." See 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

Wysong: 

That's begging the question. There is no proof the Creator wrote those words. Nor do those words show any special knowledge or wisdom since everyone intuitively knows they should try to find what is true and hold to it.

Moreover, what the invented god of the Bible supposedly said demonstrates contradiction since the Bible primarily demands blind belief and obedience (as you have argued), not open-minded inquiry as that quote implies.

God is indeed incomprehensible, and yet, He has made outreach attempts to mankind throughout "His-Story" to understand him better, and to outline that God, or YHWH (His name) is a Just and Merciful deity, yet, Justice requires wrath, at times. And people will point to wrath to deny Mercy in our Creator, all too often.

Yet it is within context that we define Justice v Tyranny, a topic we should all be all to familiar with in our own time, today.

Wysong: 

Context yet again, in this case, to rescue the impossibility of painting the Bible-god as just and moral.

The injustice and horrors in our world today are nothing compared to what the Bible attributes to its god. Religionists are quick to hold the secular world to high ethical, moral, and legal standards but are remiss in and oblivious to applying the same standards to their Bible-god.

Diverting the debate to arguments from the book itself, using hermeneutics, eschatology, history, prophesy, Bible scholars, etc. avoids the essential #1 question in this debate and are red herring logical fallacies.

Nevertheless, let's look at what the Bible says to see if it is befitting the Creator, the true source of truth, morality, and justice.

Bible believers point to the Ten Commandments as the gold standard for directing our lives. They insist the Ten Commandments should be in every classroom and courtroom. However, the only things in that list having to do with morality and ethics are the prohibitions of lying, stealing, and murder. But nobody needs a book to tell them those acts are wrong. Our Creator-given conscience takes care of that and is why all civilizations prior to the Bible and those void a Bible today have such prohibitions.

Everything else in the Commandments, like keeping the Sabbath, is about religious doctrines devised by the writers of the Bible (who named themselves as the chosen race) and their power and has nothing to do with probity or the Creator's demands on us.

Nemos: 

Four of the commandments are about our obligations to YHWH (God)

Wysong: 

It is ridiculous to assume the Creator is so insecure and ego-driven that it needs our worship. Especially a worship that amounts to propping up human-made religious institutions and the human powers that run them.

and the other six are about our moral obligations to our fellow man (Ie, respecting their rights and property) Most cultures previous to Christianity accepted Slavery as the norm, and did not consider Truth nor Justice Nor Mercy to be virtues in most of human history and in most of human culture.

Wysong: 

Slavery, subjugation, and brutalization of people are rampant in the Bible. The claim that non-Biblical cultures are amoral is false.

These commandments formed the foundation of the legal and moral system which changed all of that, and gave us the height of modern western Civilization (which frankly peaked some years ago... and is in decline now after corruption by Jewish elements into all governments pushing for a satanic NWO)

Wysong: 

The Bible is not the foundation for our legal and moral system or we would be doing many of the most heinous acts humans have ever done. (See below.) The Bible is not even mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. The latter demands freedom of and from religion, not Bible worship. Washington, Paine, Jefferson, and other founders were deists, not Bible worshipers.

Freedom, and particularly freedom from religion, released people to explore, become enlightened, create, and enjoy the fruits of their labor. That's what gave rise to technological and industrial advances, not following commands to go to Bible churches and worship an invented god that places power in religious leaders, not people.

William Wilberforce and Christian Culture are responsible for the end of slavery, almost exclusively, across the Christian world

Wysong: 

The Bible doesn't prohibit slavery, it condones it. (Discussed later)

(it still happens in Islamic and African nations, where slaves are sold on blocks in slave markets.) Not sure which Bible you are reading, but the one I read speaks of freeing us from the doctrines and commandments of men and speaks deeply to the free will o every man over his own soul.

Wysong: 

These claims about slavery are not true as will be shown. Moreover, Bible religions demand obedience to their doctrines upon penalty of hell, which is a form of slavery.

Yeshuah, Jesus himself (His true Hebrew name),

Wysong: 

Giving gods names, in Hebrew or whatever, is another proof of humanizing them.

went to the poor the lame the blind and the sick, not to the halls of Power, in preaching His ministry of redemption.

Since Jesus is claimed to be the same thing as the god of the Bible, he is guilty of all the horrors described below.

The only redemption humans need is from following the beliefs of other humans and their religions rather than their own Creator-given conscience, reasoning abilities, and free will.

The Bible and the thousands of interpretations and religions derived from it are an attempt to replace indivicual Creator-given free will, conscience, and duty to truth with human power institutions.

The god/Jesus deity created by the writers of the Bible not only violates the basic moral rules prohibiting lying, stealing, and murder (some of its own 10 Commandments) but demonstrates how to be cruel and unjust on a scale beyond imagination.

Here are some examples of how that plays out in the Bible:

Killed all of humanity except 8 adults in a flood as a lesson on morality. The estimated toll was as much as 4 billion people, including innocent infants, children, adults, and animals. (Genesis 6-9)

Kills the firstborn humans, including innocent infants, children, and animals of the entire Egyptian nation, and then commanded that the slaughter be celebrated yearly as Passover. (Exodus 12; 14; Romans 9:17)

Nemos: 

As a previously lifelong Anti-theist who debated Christians for fun (And never lost)

Wysong: 

Ahem, I kinda doubt your opponents would agree with that.

as though it were helping the world (I went to public school and for a time believed that religion – specifically Christianity – was the root of all evil on earth..) I've made this argument many times myself. Why would God be so cruel as to kill so many? Why Babies – Aren't they innocent?

Wysong: 

There is nothing more fundamental in truth, ethics, and reason than the fact that babies are innocent.

The Bible itself says: "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Yet the Bible-god/Jesus kills and maims millions of innocent children, even punishes them for generations because of what their parents did. The hypocrisy is outrageous.

I find it hard to grasp that anyone with conscience would argue that babies are not innocent in order to defend a psychopathic Bible-god and its chosen people who slaughter and maim them.

Here's an example of the double standard Bible believers are faced with.

▶️ Click to play video

▶️ Click to play video

First, you said a few basically incorrect things which contradict your statement just previous, how can you say a God whose 10 commandments are specifically against murder, stealing, and lying would violate the basic rules of his own 10 commandments?

Wysong: 

That's because the Bible is contradictory, which is another proof that it is not of the Creator. (More examples in my Position #4)

God was Just in all his actions.

Wysong: 

That is not true, as the Bible references in this section clearly show.

Surely you do not conflate a death penalty with murder? YHWH is the source of all morality, the source of the biblical Law (which has penalties for sin and evil and the crimes you accused God of above.) and the ultimate source of justice in this world as well, which eventually finds us all – in this life or the next.

Wysong: 

Those are religious claims contradicted by the Bible quotes in this section and a full reading of the Bible.

Calling murder a death penalty does not make it not murder. Any child or uneducated person could be read the Bible quotes given below and be appalled at the injustice. Try it sometime without coaching them.

Secondly, The specific historical events you mentioned above absolutely happened. YHWH, God – wiped out all life on earth except what was on the Ark.

Wysong: 

That is not known as a fact. If it were known, so what? Historical facts don't prove divine inspiration.

Flood stories in Sumaria, Akkadia, Babylon, and elsewhere predated the Bible account.

Ziusudra, Sumerian era, 2,150 BCE
Atrahasis, Akkadian era, 1,800 BCE
Uta-Napishti, Babylonian era, 1,300 BCE
Noah, Israel, 1,000 BCE

So the Bible account is not only a lie, it's plagiarism and not historically accurate.

But you fail to ask WHY he did such a thing. The scriptures tell us clearly that the world was full of sin, but our world today is full of sin – perhaps even worse. The scriptures tell us violence increased on the earth... but the scriptures also clearly tells us WHY these things happened.

Wysong: 

Why, is not an appropriate question when it comes to overt unspeakable psychopathology. If the Bible history is true, Jesus/god killed, maimed, and tortured millions if not billions of women, men, children, and animals. Ginned-up reasons to excuse the horrors do not work for any person exercising reason and conscience.

Today, millions have been maimed and killed due to the covid fraud and medical interventions. Should the perpetrators be held accountable or should we excuse them if they tell us why they did it?

If a person today steals, rapes, mutilates, murders, and maims infants, children, adults, and animals and provides a reason why, should we hail the psychopath as not only innocent but just and loving?

Genesis 6 – The Fallen Angels & The Nephilim.

(Matthew 24:36-51; Mark 13:32-37; Luke 12:35-48)

¹And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, ²That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ³And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. ⁴There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

⁵And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ⁶And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. ⁷And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Noah's Favor with God

⁸But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

⁹These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. ¹⁰And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

¹¹The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. ¹²And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Noah Builds the Ark

(Genesis 9:1-17)

¹³And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. ¹⁴Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. ¹⁵And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. ¹⁶A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it. ¹⁷And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. ¹⁸But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. ¹⁹And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. ²⁰Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. ²¹And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them. ²²Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

The preflood world was overwhelmed with Giant Cannibals, eating mankind, and beyond that – the sinful teachings of the fallen watcher angels also spread to humans DNA becoming even more corrupted by genetic engineering and splicing animal-human and cross species animal hybrids. Loosely, collectively known as the Nephilim – A word similar to Mutants. These Mutants, made outside of Gods image, by the fallen angels (We know them today as Satan, the adversary) are the children of Satan. Literally in the case of the giants, figuratively in the case of the Nephilim – those who corrupt the temple and change themselves from Human are no longer made in Gods image, no longer have His name written on their DNA numerically and become damned. They are not allowed into the standard afterlife and become demonic wandering spirits in death. (Which is why Demons are almost nonexistence in the preflood scriptures, then suddenly everywhere.)

Wysong: 

We are to believe that out of a population of perhaps billions, other than eight, that there were no innocent beings, like animals, infants, and at least some adult humans?

The horrors visited on innocents cannot be dismissed as inconsequential, a heuristic organon, rightful judgement, "god's plan," or whatever.

God wiped out 4billion (by your estimate) cannibalistic mutant freaks who ruled over mankind, enslaved us, and consumed us as meat. While engaging in Satanic worship of their fallen angel forebears. He saved Noah and his family – because they were "pure in their generations" or as we say today, Genes.

Wysong: 

Wysong: All the beings were the Bible-god's creation. That means the Bible-god made some to have purity through the genes the Bible-god gave them. The others the Bible-god made had unpure genes and needed to be slaughtered.

No free will anywhere? The Bible-god made robotic pure people and then robotic evil people to be killed?

Where's the lesson in any of that, other than the Bible-god shouldn't have made evil beings?

The Noah story, even if true, does not justify the Bible-god's callous cruelty to all but one family. This is not to mention that a flood (which I agree probably happened and wrote about it in my 1970 book) far predated the Bible.

A big flood has nothing to do with Akkadian, Sumerian, or Hebrew gods. Floods occur because of natural laws. They are used by religionists to instill fear in people who don't do as religious leaders say.

Nothing new here. Just humans wanting the power to rule over other humans both then and now.

As for Exodus, God was punishing a nation that was brutally enslaving his people (including children) and working them to death. Constantly murdering their own sons, etc to wipe them out. After continual enslavement and ethnic cleansing in the post Joseph/Pre exodus era of Egypt, God punished the Egyptians righteously.

Wysong: 

People have always been enslaved. The racist Bible-god murders enslavers when his special race is enslaved.

These arguments to justify mass killing and maiming sound like an unscrupulous defense lawyer trying to get a clearly guilty mass murderer off free and clear.

Killing innocent children, adults, and animals is not righteous. Justifications for such acts have served as open license for Christian horrors since its beginnings--inquisitions, crusades, witch trials, wars, Jonestown, etc.

They are not His people and His mercy is exclusively for His people who follow His rules and morality.

Wysong: 

"His" people are named as the Hebrews. Following rules and morality like cutting off boy's foreskins, trimming hair just so, stoning children to death, raping young girls from slaughtered nations, etc. is the path to the Bible-god's mercy? (see below for Bible references)

The Creator of the universe is the god of a certain nation on Earth? All the rest--men, women, children, and animals--can be tortured, raped, pillaged, and slaughtered with impunity?

A few verses cherry-picked here and there to show the Bible-god to not be an ogre once in awhile, doesn't excuse the horrors.

He is the God of a Nation, a nation that has rules and laws, and those who do not follow those codes are not part of that nation, and not citizens, they have no rights, in the legalistic sense, under God.

Wysong: 

Wysong: The Bible-god is, therefore, racist, prejudiced, tribal, provincial, unjust, and tyrannical. There is no evidence those are the qualities of the Creator.

They are the qualities of the human leaders of a race who write a book naming their race as the Creator's chosen and that set forth rules empowering themselves as religious leaders and justifying slaughtering, pillaging, and enslaving any not of their race.

Generally they are enemies oppressing Gods people, however – God protects even them in some situations from retaliation by His people because it is unrighteous. Example, when God told the nations not to invade Mt. Seir.

Wysong: 

The Creator is responsible for the existence of everyone. But the Bible-god has a chosen people who just so happen to be those who wrote the Bible naming themselves as "chosen."

The Bible-god says,

"¹⁸ No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; ¹⁹ no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. ²¹ No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the LORD." (Leviticus 21)

Nemos: 

Numbers 14:2 says –

² And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!

Leviticus 21-29 is about honoring the dead and burying them, in Hebrew custom rather than pagan rituals. And about touching dead bodies (which defiles people for a period of time, a biblical sanitation law)

Wysong: 

Bible verses corrected and quoted above. Numbers 14:2 is irrelevant to this topic.

That Biblical sanitation law makes no sense or all morticians would be dead or diseased by now.

You're twisting it sorely out of context to say that YHWH is condemning peoples beards.

Wysong: 

That's not what was quoted. Leviticus 19:27 says: "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." No context is necessary.

It's ridiculous that the Bible-god takes time out from running the universe to punish men for hair trimming.

And the rest of is discusses the Priestly Levitical tribe's priestly rules, not allowing those with deformations and various specific health issues to be the priests that do the sacrificing. Makes sense, and is not cruel. God simply has standards.

Wysong: 

Such standards for a pagan ritual make no sense and are cruel to the innocent animals sacrificed.

It's cruel to the innocent humans ostracized because of deformities and susceptibility to diseases over which they had no control.

Slicing the throats of animals in sacrifice does nothing to improve the world or the human condition. It's absurd, defamatory, and heretical to pin such nonsense on the Creator.

Condemned victims for ten generations if they have mutilated sex organs or are of illegitimate birth. (Deuteronomy 23:1-)

Nemos: 

It is a horrible sin to have a child outside of wedlock because of the damage it does to the children, and therefore to society as well, and while modern society has greatly relaxed its views on sexually promiscuous behavior, we are certainly reaping the harvest in our current world of broken families, fleshful and lustful materialistic focuses, and breakdown of culture.

A little slut shaming is good for mankind, and for the women that might be destroyed by such behavior as well. I can only speak from my personal experience, as a child of a broken home. My mother and Father divorced when I was 1. I never knew a normal relationship with either of them. My mother became a drug addicted prostitute and drug my siblings along for the ride. My father was a workaholic and I barely know the man. I wish someone had slut shamed my mother just once and maybe none of that had to have happened. Maybe my brother wouldn't be constantly screaming "I want to die" as he finally detoxes from heroin on my couch. I don't know what might have been. But I know the pain of being the baby in that arrangement, and I suspect Gods laws around such things are, even if difficult for us to understand at times, for our own good.

Wysong: 

I am sorry to hear about those circumstances. You can thank the secular state for their modicum of decency and justice that you were not condemned for ten generations as the pretend Bible-god would have done.

Kills people for making an ointment, burning incense, taking a census (75,000 slaughtered), not cutting the ends of young boys' penises off, or eating fat. (Exodus 30:33; 2 Chronicles 26:19-;1Chronicles 21; Torah)

Here the Bible-god kills people who don't mutilate a boy's sex organs. If they do mutilation, the boy will be condemned for ten generations. (Deuteronomy 23:1,2) The absurdity speaks for itself. (Mutilation is any alteration of the body from its natural state that jeopardizes function and health. Circumcision qualifies [caution--graphic pictures] despite the money-driven corrupt religious and medical establishments claiming otherwise.)

Nemos: 

There are many rules that may not make sense at first to us – The dietary laws are fairly simple, most of those animals that are "unclean" to eat spread or harbor or incubate zoonotic (cross species) disease, or eat their own poop, which concentrates toxins in the flesh. Modern "medicine" and chemical saturation has masked the problem, but even today Pork etc are huge issues with diseases around the world. Also Parasites are huge in those non biblical diets as well. In the old world, it would have been even more pronounced as the diseases had fewer options for the poor to treat.

Wysong: 

Eating poop does not concentrate toxins in the flesh. Provide proof. Some animals do this coprophagy for the probiotic health benefits it provides.

The rest of this defense of Bible dietary laws is also not scientifically or medically true. All animals pose such threats. In fact, all foods can pose such threats.

Our government puts people in prison for protesting. God killed a few

Wysong: 

How many is a few? The Bible-god usually doesn't mess around with a few, it likes, thousands, millions, and billions dead or maimed. One is enough to convict the Bible-god.

throughout scripture for profaning His Holy places. I think Gods approach actually makes more sense than America's, here. Holy things are not meant to be mocked, but are serious. And about serious issues such as people escaping the kind of pain I mentioned above as a result of basic sinful stupidity. If death is a penalty for some people who profane and mock God (whom knows their hearts and souls) then I can live with that, no problem.

Wysong: 

So what if he knows their hearts and souls? People were created with free will and the ability to correct wrongdoing.

If the Bible-god knows all of our hearts and souls at all times, including now, there would be slaughtering of the bad going on right now just like back then.

Yet we don't see that happening to know if Bible believers would really be able to "live with that, no problem."

Some things are meant to be kept sacred. In our modern world of materialism and postmodernism, its the exact opposite – which is the better choice?

Wysong: 

The Bible-god's approach is closer to fundamentalist Islam than to justice and reason. The better choice is not to kill people for picayune infractions of nonsense laws. Evidently, the Bible-god hasn't figured that out.

Forced innocent children to wander and die in a wilderness for forty years because of the sins of parents. (Numbers 14:33)

Nemos: 

Children are not innocent of the sins of their parents. Sins carry over genetically, it has been proven with modern epigenetics that Murder, as one example, leaves a genetic scar which carries on to the offspring of the murderer. Which itself leaves them more open to violence. Genetics are incredibly important. God works through such mechanisms. Scripture tells us the sins of the father pass on to the son. It is a warning not to sin and hurt your own offspring. Because in the grand scheme of things its all eternal, your offspring are a part of you, good and bad. The way to protect them is to follow YHWHs law zealously, and God blesses your genetics for 1000 generations.

Wysong: 

It is the Bible-god who is condemning the children for forty years, not epigenetics. Moreover, forty years does not erase epigenetic effects.

The innocence of a child is inherent regardless of the parents. Young children are not capable of making informed or conscience-driven decisions.

Commands killing unbelievers. (Deuteronomy 13; 2 Kings 10)

Nemos: 

Your interpretation is stretching the grammar.. this is in reference to false prophets actively attempting to lead YHWH's people away from Him and into sin, for which the penalty is death. Rightly so. Magicians and Charlatans, etc.

Wysong: 

The grammar is clear: kill unbelievers. Killing and slaughter, heads in piles, bears commanded to rip apart young boys, etc. This is totally consistent with the rapacious killing appetite of the Bible-god and its chosen obedient people.

Also, what about the respect for free will you argue the Bible and Christianity promote? Here, the Bible-god commands the killing of anyone who does not believe a certain way and does not obey rules that violate conscience, morality, and reason.

Condemned to leprosy, children, their children, and a king who burned incense. (2 Chronicles 26:19-)

Nemos: 

See above on Gods laws dealing with Holy and Sacred places and objects.

Wysong: 

Making places and objects (including the Bible) holy is idolatry. Idolatry is no justification for the horrors visited upon children.

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Orders that young boys who disobey or curse their parents be stoned to death. (Exodus 21:17; Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

Nemos: 

Would you rather governments be the final arbiters of justice in regards to our children? Or us?

Wysong: 

That isn't the choice being given in the Bible. The Bible-god commands stoning to death children who disobey or curse. There is no choice.

Such an act would be psychopathically insane and proves the Bible-god is not the Creator.

Obviously no sane parent wants to kill their own children, but what if your son was Bill Gates? It would be about time to have a talk with the elders of your local village at this point.

Wysong: 

Bill Gates is not a child. If he were, he should not be stoned to death for disobedience or cursing. Even a modicum of decency and morality forces this conclusion.

Starved people, opened the earth to swallow them when they desired to eat, and then sent a plague to kill 14,700 more who complained about it. (Numbers 16)

Killed people for working or gathering sticks on the Sabbath, and for profaning it. (Numbers 15:32-36: Exodus 31:14,15)

Induced snakes to bite people and sent bears out of the woods to tear apart forty-two children who called a man "baldhead." ( 2 Kings 2:23,24)

Nemos: 

Jeremiah 18:8 says "18 When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me." Re-check your verses.

As for the children, I think we can logically deduce the children were assaulting the elder man, probably throwing stones and rocks. How else would a prophet of a Just God curse children, and who else could 2 bears kill 42 children? The children, upon seeing bears, would have scattered under normal circumstances so that only a few would have been mauled. Even in the heart of a small town in Alaska a polar bear only was able to kill a few people before being stopped by locals recently, for example. two bears can't catch 42 kids under normal circumstances, it would be impossible.

Wysong: 

Omitted the Jeremiah error.

The 2Kings' quote is clear in saying what it does. Agreed it does not make sense in any respect, just like most of the Bible doesn't.

Sent a famine that forced people to eat their children, and beheaded seventy innocent sons and put their heads in a pile as a lesson. (2 Kings 6:28-)

Nemos: 

Context, again, is king – if you actually read the passage this is the result of a seige by an enemy. The very King of Israel himself tore off his clothes and wore sackcloth upon hearing this womans story.

"The Siege and Famine of Samaria

²⁴And it came to pass after this, that Benhadad king of Syria gathered all his host, and went up, and besieged Samaria. ²⁵And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver. ²⁶And as the king of Israel was passing by upon the wall, there cried a woman unto him, saying, Help, my lord, O king. ²⁷And he said, If the LORD do not help thee, whence shall I help thee? out of the barnfloor, or out of the winepress? ²⁸And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. ²⁹So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son. ³⁰And it came to pass, when the king heard the words of the woman, that he rent his clothes; and he passed by upon the wall, and the people looked, and, behold, he had sackcloth within upon his flesh. ³¹Then he said, God do so and more also to me, if the head of Elisha the son of Shaphat shall stand on him this day."

~2Kings6

Wysong: 

Context does not justify the horrors the Bible-god was responsible for.

Tells men to kill their wives (even if pregnant), children, and friends if they disagree with them on religion, commands no mercy be given, and is wrathful if lives are spared. (Deuteronomy 13:6-; Exodus 32:27)

Nemos: 

"And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."

Same as false prophets. To try to willfully turn people away from YHWH deserves death by YHWHs laws. This is an enticement which ends up with eternal damnation, its serious stuff.

Wysong: 

It's serious proof the Bible demands beliefs that are nonsense and psychopathic and that the Bible-god is not the Creator.

Condoned Jael lying to a man and driving a tent peg into the man's temple while he slept. (Judges 4:17-21)

Nemos: 

This was an enemy General, in the middle of a war. Who wouldn't? Brave woman, saved many lives.

Wysong: 

Depends on the reason for the war. But the point here is that lying was condoned by the Bible-god. The Creator, on the other hand, is truth.

Is partial to one race and keeps them in good graces if they commit murder, bash babies to the ground, and rip open pregnant women. (Exodus 22:20; Hosea 13:16; Joshua 10:1-42; 1 Samuel 15:3)

Nemos: 

"thou shalt not commit murder" I suggest you re-read those within context.

Wysong: 

Context does not justify murderous acts.

Condones the practice of incest, adultery, genocide, sexism, keeping concubines (300 for Solomon), keeping and beating slaves (with the only limitation being to not injure their eyes or teeth). (Genesis 19; 20; 28; 29; Exodus 21; . . . throughout Torah)

Nemos: 

"Thou shalt not commit adultery" "Thou shalt not commit murder" Nothing against numerous wives. Solomon was a sinner whose problem was women which caused him to fall away from God and become a pagan, sacrificing to other Gods.

Need I remind you that Christians ended, but did not invent, slavery? Slavery was commonplace in the ancient world – when your neighbor tribe got together and attacked you, and you somehow survived, you didn't give them their weapons back and let them go. You either A. Killed them, or B. Put them to work so they weren't a burden.

YHWH is such a righteous God, he has commandments even of how you treat these prisoners of war. Do we not demand good treatment of POWs in modern conventional warfare today? (Not that we get it mind you...) Yet another example of his merciful and just nature.

Wysong: 

There is no justice and mercy in those passages. There is the opposite. There is also nothing there forbidding slavery.

In fact, the Bible-god's chosen people were told to make war on those not willing to be enslaved. Deuteronomy 20:10-13.

Also, Abraham had female slaves. Genesis 20:14,17.

Priests can buy slaves from neighboring nations, feed those born in their houses, bequeath them to their children, and enslave them for life. Leviticus 22:11;25: 44,46

Slavery has abated in some places in the world due to secular state interventions by people engaging their Creator-given conscience, empathy, and reasoning abilities, not due to Bible-based religions.

Commands the killing of adulterers and non-virgins brought to marriage. (Deuteronomy 22:20-)

Nemos: 

Deadbeat dads aren't popular these days either, in extreme cases Biblical law calls for death penalty. It keeps the herd holy, but when we began a cultural degradation into "acceptance of diversity" instead of the previous cultural historical norm of "Oppose Evil", we took the very slippery slope into current postmodernist thinking, open grooming of children in media, entertainment, and schools – funded by government, and worse. Now we live in a shithole of sin. I call it the Sin War. Frankly, I'd rather have kept the death penalty for perverts, groomers, etc. And maybe in our modern thinking the death penalty for cheating is too much, but then again – look at the price we've paid culturally for acceptance and tolerance of every evil and betrayal. We have the right to think it's a bit much, but strictly speaking of morals – killing evil is righteous.

How many cries of passion each year are reported over cheating? How much violence, drama, and problems are associated with it? Not to mention the broken families, impacted children, etc. Many of those children of single moms will end up abused sexually. I'm not saying I think its not harsh, I am saying those crimes and problems would not exist if we followed YHWHs law:

"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel."

Wysong: 

Agree on the sad state of the world. Disagree on the justice of the above passage and that if implemented our problems would be solved.

People who do things that violate their Creator-given conscience will find that such acts weigh heavily on them over time and this weight can serve to help them grow to become better people--our purpose in this Earth life.

Religious rules and laws, even if followed to a tee, do nothing to help people grow.

Inbstead, religions make people dependent, passive, single-minded, close-minded, expectant, intellectually lazy, and dangerous if, in the case of the Bible, they actually do what its god/Jesus demands.

Commanded Jews to slaughter entire cities and to steal all their goods, kill and maim the animals, but keep alive the young virgin maidens to take home to rape. (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 13; Judges 21; Numbers 31)

Nemos: 

If men had committed war or rape of a Hebrew women, the city of men were put to death sometimes, but generally when you see God wiping out entire tribes, its because they are the descendants of the Nephilim giants. To abandon the innocent women after the men were killed would be a fate worse than death in that time period in most of the world. Unless they were Nephilim. Then it was a total wipeout.

Wysong: 

Nephilim, like context, does not justify slaughtering a civilization and then taking the young girls home to rape.

The Bible-god equates love with having himself in the form of Jesus sacrificially tortured to death as in preceding pagan religions. Guilt for this is collectivized by demanding that all people be responsible for the torture that was necessary to make amends for an original sin for which all humans but Adam and Eve had no part, but for which all of humanity is condemned to eternal torture in hell if they don't agree. (Genesis 3; Romans 5:12,14;1John 1:8-10).

Nemos: 

YHWH Respects free will to such an extent, that when he sought to remind His people of Him and write his law upon their hearts and memories,

Wysong: 

The Bible-god does the opposite of respecting free will as all the above passages prove.

If the Bible-god's law is written on hearts and memories, why the need for a book that no two people can read and get the same message from?

he did so through the most human act of all.

Wysong: 

The Bible-god can act human since humans created it. The Creator is not human.

One guaranteed to reach all but the hardest and coldest of hearts – A man dying a horrible death to save his people.

Wysong: 

This proves the Bible-god is a human god. A person being crucified saves nobody, other than serving as a warning to not do whatever the crucified person did to warrant the death and to create a demand for true justice.

A story so impactful it still brings people to tears 2000 years later. I'm one as I write this.

Wysong: 

Emotion proves nothing. Truth, on the other hand, brings a contentment to the spirit that is unmatched. That's because the Creator is truth and our purpose is to get as close to that truth as possible.

Only the Jews and Romans were responsible for His death, but we are all part of Adam and Eve, and their sin is imprinted on our genetics and souls.

Wysong: 

Belief in the Jesus savior doctrine only does one thing, create reliance on man-made religions to "save" us and empower religious institutions that have brought more harm and tears to humans than any other human invention.

It's revealing that the "original sin" we are all supposedly guilty of is the result of our progenitors, Adam and Eve, eating fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

In other words, the writers of the Bible did not want people to decide what is good and bad using their Creator-given conscience, reason, and free will. Instead, they invented a story to make people look to the Bible writers' man-made god religion and its leaders for orders on what to do or not.

Failure of the first humans to obey the forbidden fruit command--the prohibition to decide for yourself what is right and wrong--is a sin so great that it is embedded into all of humanity through all time.

So, killing, stealing, lying, raping are not the ultimate sins. No, deciding for yourself what is right or wrong is!

The only way to rid ourselves of that sin and avoid eternal hell (something only a psychopath could invent) is to be "saved." That just so happens to mean following religious leaders and believing in the books they write and the savior they invent.

But if one innocent man can condemn all mankind, one innocent man's death can redeem it.

Wysong: 

It's impossible for one person to condemn the spiritual merit of all people or one man to redeem them. Prove otherwise.

Innocent "man"? Jesus is supposedly the same as YHWH, the Bible mass-murderer.

But it's a choice, because of loving creator bestowed us with Free Will,

Wysong: 

Yes, the Creator gave us free will but the Bible-god takes it away by telling us that it is a sin to individually have knowledge of good and evil-- eat of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Instead, we are to surrender our free will and defer to Bible religious leaders telling us what we should and should not do.

He continually tries to woo us back to him through miracles, wonders, healings, protections from war and famine and natural disaster, etc.

Wysong: 

Woo us to relinquish free will, i.e., knowledge of good and evil, and rather follow religious leaders is the evident plan.

The Bible-god wants to convince us by performing magic tricks? More compelling would be basic decency.

Moreover, nobody is being wooed through acts such as you mentioned for which there is no proof of Bible-god causation.

But the greatest act of all was the sacrifice of His own human son to tell us He loves us and we should come back to Him.

Wysong: 

Nobody and nothing has ever been saved by pagan sacrifice rituals as in the Bible and in the Jesus mythology.

All our sorrows come from being apart from Him and His laws.

Wysong: 

Thousands of years of sorrows have resulted from the thousands of religions trying to follow a human-made Bible.

Belief and faith in man-made Bible religions, and anything else for that matter that is not true, rather than fulfilling our duty to truth (knowledge of good and evil) is what separates us from the source of truth, the Creator.

I think we can see that you lack context and an in depth study of the WHYs behind these WHATs you speak against so strongly. It helped me a lot. Plainly speaking, you don't know what you speak of!

It is indeed true that this message has been attacked more than any other throughout human history, and we've seen that in our own era as well – with the Elite's Cultural Sinwar against Christians and the Christian values western society were built upon. Like the Abolition of Slavery, Which of course upset the Jewish slavemasters and slaveship owners in the Democrat party (The party of slavery, mind you.) People have died preserving this information, been burnt en masse at the stake with their painstakingly handcopied scriptures were tied around their necks to burn with them. This message has been persecuted by those in power, Especially by the Pagan Controlled Opposition Satanic Church of Rome – Catholicism. You will not find me defending the history of the Catholic Church, an entity that was purely a pagan attempt to infiltrate and corrupt/monopolize the Christian message a few hundred years After Christ. In essence, Pagan Emperor Constantine formed a Christian Church and Outlawed any form of other Christianity (By pain of Death) other than the Nicean form, which promoted pagan Easter and many other forms of early infiltration of Doctrine which have nothing to do with the Bible – Today they are obsessed with Mariolatry and consuming other religions to form a NWO one world religion like Chrislam) to conflate Christianity with Catholicism historically would impugn the innocent with the horrendous and unending crimes of the Roman Church, and to ignore historical atrocities such as the Dark Ages (The Church killing Christians for reading the bible) and constant historical witch hunts which were a pretext by Rome to murder Christians – something they have a history of doing even before forming a false Church, as far back as Nero.

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Wysong: 

Speaking of knowing what you are talking about, no Bible apologist can know what they are talking about since there are no original copies of their god-Bible.

As for Catholics being solely to blame for religions acting out what the Bible says, Protestants are guilty of the same. Jonestown comes to mind and all the misdeeds of the thousands of Bible-believing Christian religions.

Following these Bible lessons of outrageous cruelty, religions have justified such horror since the time that they, not the Creator, wrote the book.

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Nemos: 

Allow me to use your own graphic to make my point, (figure 184 above) the most urgently prosecuted by the Church were those who disagreed with its doctrines or quite simply, read the bible for themselves. These "heretics" were the first in line for such tools of torture you show above and impugn to all Christians. You inadvertently blame the victim in this.

Wysong: 

What you describe is exactly like the Bible-god is described as doing to unbelievers. So why would Catholics and all Bible-based religions not emulate this model? Answer: They would--if the secular state didn't prevent it.

You can see a documentary covering this "pilgrim church" (the real followers of Christ) throughout history here.

Wysong: 

To follow Christ/YHWH means you stone to death your disobedient children, kill unbelievers, rape young girls you take home after you slaughter a people, etc.

The foundation of Catholics and all Christian religions is the Bible and they all have been party to untold human misery because the Bible-god is all in on that.

People were prevented from reading the Bible because the hierarchy wanted dibs on the god that claimed to be there and be the sole dispensary of that invented god's words. When people finally got access to it, nothing changed. Acting out what the Bible demands and models still results in horrors.

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Modern Catholicism

The Papacy (And therefore unholy Catholic Church of Rome) has no legitimate claim to the authority of the apostles, or Christ. It's all a lie and fake news in history.

See: Was Peter The Rock Upon Which the Church Was Built? Doctrines of Men: RESOLVED

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The Catholic Church (Or Church of Rome) was the Pagan Emperor approved bishops convening to delete 1/3 of the Bible as the ancients knew it. The Ethiopian Canon still includes them, oldest on earth. They are responsible for censoring the true bible and forcing people into intermediary salvation middlemen, fact checking (Like Facebook fact checks for fake news...deceptively and with an agenda) and killing anyone who disagreed with them.

...The long-held claim that the Roman Catholic Church was the only church which never changed is not supported by church history not even Roman Catholic history. How sad to realize that this false claim influenced so many to join or to stay in this false church which actually is the product of centuries of changes. Most of these changes came as a result of yielding to heathen customs and practices which were subsequently incorporated into Roman Catholic teachings and worship. The following is a partial list of heathen, unscriptural practices which became a part of Roman Catholic dogma over a period of seventeen centuries. Some of the dates given are approximate. In many cases, these heresies were even debated for years before being given the status of required beliefs:

300 AD Prayers for the dead

300 AD Making the sign of the cross

375 AD Veneration of angels & dead saints

375 AD Use of images in worship

394 AD The Mass as a daily celebration

431 AD Exaltation of Mary with term "Mother of God" applied at Council of Ephesus

526 AD Extreme Unction (Last Rites)

593 AD Doctrine of Purgatory – Gregory

600 AD Prayers to Mary & dead saints

786 AD Worship of cross, images & relics

995 AD Canonization of dead saints

1079 AD Celibacy of priesthood

1090 AD The Rosary

1190 AD Indulgences

1215 AD Transubstantiation – Innocent III

1215 AD Auricular Confession of sins to a priest

1220 AD Adoration of the wafer (Host)

1414 AD Cup forbidden to the people at communion

1439 AD Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma

1439 AD The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed

1545 AD Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent

1546 AD Apocryphal books added to Bible

1854 AD Immaculate Conception of Mary

1870 AD Infallibility of pope in matters of faith and morals claimed by Vatican Council

1950 AD Assumption of Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven after her death)

1965 AD Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church

Although some of the preceding Roman Catholic heresies are now being questioned by many, both inside and outside the church, none have been officially repudiated and all continue to be practiced by millions of Catholics around the world. The urgent need today is for Roman Catholics; yes, and all who claim to be Christians, to examine their own beliefs and the teachings of their churches by the only sure standard – the Bible. Whatever contradicts, adds to or subtracts from the sixty-six books of the Old and the New Testaments, is error no matter how many may cling to it.

Roman Catholics who read the Bible will soon discover that many Catholic teachings and practices are specifically forbidden by Jesus Christ Himself. Note carefully the following warnings given by the Lord Jesus Christ to the religious leaders of His day concerning vain worship, vain tradition and vain repetitions. All of these are particularly applicable to Roman Catholicism today. Vain worship: In Matthew 15:8-9, Jesus said, "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the command men of men." All worship is indeed vain when it is based upon the commandments of men rather than the Word of God. Vain tradition: In Matthew 15:6b, Jesus said, "Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. "

[Note: Valid tradition is based upon Scripture and confirms it. Vain tradition is based upon man's teachings and violates it. In Roman Catholicism, tradition is consistently elevated above the Scripture which results in vain worship (no matter how sincere) and makes the commandment of God of no effect – a very serious matter.]

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Wysong: 

There is no original Bible that true Christians discovered and followed.

Moreover, all Bibles are filled with pagan beliefs. For example, the flood story predated the Bible writers and the central character of the New Testament, Jesus, was modeled after numerous precursor pagan gods. Detailed in my #5 position.

Any person who has taken control of their Creator-given mind and conscience would be horrified by killing, maiming, and torturing innocent babies, children, adults, and animals. Such gruesomeness is not consistent with even human standards of ethics, morality, and justice, let alone the origin of those virtues, the Creator.

Reducing the Creator to religions and holy books is idolatry, the worship of human-made objects, including human-made books.

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Justifying and even applauding horrific indefensible acts described in the Bible, even teaching them to children in Bible schools, epitomizes heresy and sacrilege. It defames, not honors, the Creator.

The Bible turns thinking people of conscience away from the true Creator, the very source of justice, truth, kindness, forgiveness, and empathy.

So, not only is it unreasonable to claim the Creator wrote a book, the Bible itself shows it could not be of the Creator.

Nemos: 

Fundamentally speaking – a people must have a concrete anchored (fixed) moral compass

Wysong: 

That compass is our Creator-given conscience and reasoning ability.

We don't need a Bible rule book fed to us to follow as if we are children. We are here to exercise our free will and conscience. In doing so we discover how best to be better souls by eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

or they fall for generational propaganda like the transgender fad of the postmodernist, subjectivist thinking where there is no such thing as good or evil – only perspective.

Nemos:

Does the Bible provide ethical, moral, and justice guidance?

Famously so, for example, most people in the world have heard the Gospel message and have heard about Gods eternal legal/moral code – The Lawbooks given us by Moses.

Wysong: 

Less than a third of the world is Christian and few of those have actually read the Bible. Most of the world has either not read or even heard of the Bible. That does not condemn them to evil such as the Christian world has been party to.

This extensive yet simple (by modern contrast) legal code of just over 600 laws (iirc) has formed the basis of modern western legal systems.

Wysong: 

The Bible is not mentioned in America’s founding documents nor does it impact its legal system. Thank goodness for that or our legal system would justify horrendous acts, like stoning disobedient children to death, and other atrocities and injustices enumerated in this topic.

For example, Christians like William Wilberforce are largely responsible for the end of historical slavery in the modern era. (The jewish deep state have reversed this, turning us all into "wage slaves" using the central banking system, but even this is hidden.)

Wysong: 

Slavery is justified by the Bible: “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.” (Peter 2:18: ) Slavery has been a part of Christianity since its early Roman beginnings. People following Christian religions adhere to religious commands (including tithing of wages = “wage slaves”) upon threat of eternal torture in hell. That’s the ultimate slavery. The Bible Belt in America was a vehement and tenacious proponent of slavery. Jews were the originators of the Bible which names them as the “chosen race” entitling them to enslave the rest of humanity.

Virtues such as Truth and Mercy were not even considered important qualities, much less virtues, in the ancient pre Christ world.

Wysong: 

The duty to truth and mercy is inherent in human conscience

It is the praxis of all civilizations or civilization would not be possible. The Bible quotes above prove the Bible demands and condones horrific evils up to the present day, the opposite of truth and mercy. More detailed here.

A world rule by iron fisted tyrants and "god kings" who often demanded human sacrifice and other evils.

Wysong: 

The early Christian church was centered on iron-fisted tyrants in the line of Roman pope god-kings and the rest of the Christian hierarchy. The Christian Crusades, Inquisitions, witch trials, and countless wars killing, torturing, and maiming millions throughout Christian history prove the tyranny.

Animal and human sacrifice is a Bible theme. Cruel animal sacrifice was demanded by the god of the Bible. Jesus, thought by Christians to be the same as the god of the Bible, was sacrificed and is the very foundation of Christianity.

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This makes the god of the Bible not only a party to sacrifice, but an author, actor, and victim of it (as if that makes any sense). Christians worldwide celebrate sacrifice every time they symbolically eat Jesus when taking Communion or bread and wine (Jesus’ flesh and blood) commemorating Jesus’ command to do so. Mathew 26: 26-28

Much of the natural rights basis we take for granted in our US Constitution is derived from the biblical moral and legal system.

Wysong: 

Incorrect and nonsensical based upon the information presented above. The ethics and morality presented in the Bible are the coup de grace to the notion that the Creator of the universe had any part in the writing of the Bible.

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More random windows into the nature and acts of the Bible-god

• Deuteronomy 20:16-- save nothing alive that breathes
• Numbers 31:17-- kill every little boy and every woman who has had intercourse
• Deuteronomy 3:6-- completely destroy every city, man, woman, and child
• 1Samual 15:3--smite, destroy, slay, spare nobody including infant and suckling child
• Psalms 137:8,9-- make it a happy occasion to seize infants and dash them against the rocks
• Following this example, doing the Bible-god's work, Christian Spanish Conquistadors bashed baby's heads and fed them to dogs.

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• Joshua 8:25-- 12,000 men and women slaughtered
• Deuteronomy 20:10-- make war against those not willing to be enslaved
• Leviticus 26:15--bring sudden terror, wasting disease, and fever that will destroy sight and drain life
• Deuteronomy 32:23--heap disasters, shoot arrows, starve, send pestilence, plague, wild beasts, and venom of vipers
• Deuteronomy 32:39-- kill and wound
• Isaiah 66:4 --bring their fears upon them
• Jeremiah 18:11-- prepares a disaster and devises a plan against people
• 2kings 21:12-- bringing calamity and wiping people out as one wipes out a bowl and turns it upside down
• Isaiah 31:2-- bring disaster, the one he helps will fall, both will perish together
• Jeremiah 32:42-- brought great calamity on the people
• Jeremiah 35:17-- bringing disaster
• 2Samual 5:8-- commands killing lame and blind
• 1Samuel 18:27-- commands killing 200 and taking their foreskins
• 1 and 2 Samuel-- praises a soldier who kills tens of thousands, beheads, and cuts off foreskin trophies
• Leviticus 26:29; 2kings 6:27,29; Jeremiah 19:9; 2kings 6:27,29; Lamentations 4:9,11--forces people to cannibalize their children
• Jeremiah 44:2-- brought disaster, laid cities to ruins and desolation because they burned incense
• Jeremiah 45:5-- demolish what was built, uproot what was planted, bring disaster on every living creature, kill as a war spoil
• Lamentations 3:38-- sends calamities
• Jeremiah 1:14--disaster will be poured out on all who live
• Jeremiah 11:11-- will bring a disaster they cannot escape and their cries will be ignored
• Jeremiah 11:17-- has anger because of incense and therefore brings disaster
• Jeremiah 11:22-- punish them, young men will die by sword, sons and daughters starved
• Psalms 78:49-- unleashed anger, wrath, indignation, hostility
• 2Kings 17:25-- sent lions to kill them
• Judges 3:20--a word resulted in a knife plunged into a person's belly
• Numbers 11:1-- sent a fire to consume those who complained about hardship
• Numbers 16:32-- opens the Earth to swallow people into a pit of fire
• Numbers 16: 45,46-- consume them in an instant and send a plague
• Numbers 25:1-9-- anger burns, hangs them, kill all, kills 24,000 with a plague
• Genesis 38:7, 10-- slays sons
• 1Samual 6:19-- slays seventy for looking in a box
• 2Samual 6:8-- slays Nathan for trying to stop the box from tipping over
• Numbers 1:51-- will execute for getting near the Tabernacle
• Exodus 19:12-- orders executions by arrow or stone for getting too close to a mountain
• Joshua 24:19-- a jealous god who will not forgive
• Jeremiah 27:8,10,15-- punish with sword, famine, plague, banish, kill
• Jeremiah 4:10;20-- lies and deceives
• Ezekiel 14:9-- I have deceived
• Ezekiel 20:24--sacrifice every firstborn in the fire to devastate them
• 1Kings 21: 21-23-- condones lying and deception and punishes with disaster for it
• Psalms 47:2-- is a terrible oppressive lord
• 2 Corinthians 5:11-- terror of the lord
• Hebrews 10:31-- the lord is a fearful thing
• Jeremiah 48:10--cursed for keeping the sword back from blood