Debate: IS THE BIBLE THE UNERRING WORD OF THE CREATOR?

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."
—William Casey CIA director 1981

The bigger the lie the greater its acceptance because people cannot believe authority figures would ignore reality.

To find truth we must hate the lie more than love accepted beliefs.

Fraud vitiates everything it touches. (common law maxim) Nudd v. Burrows (1875) 91 U.S. 416.
Fraud destroys the validity of everything into which it enters. Boyce's Executors v. Grundy (1830) 28 U.S. 210.
Fraud vitiates the most solemn contracts, documents and even judgments. United States v. Throckmorton (1878) 98 JU.S. 61.70.

FORWARD
The accepted cosmogony/cosmology (origin and nature of the universe) belief is:

A Big Bang of nothing created an infinite meaningless universe containing atomic dust that gravitationally accreted into heavenly bodies including our Earthball moving in several different directions at 2.8 million mph and holding an atmosphere next to the vacuum of space while spontaneously forming life from primeval sludge that then evolved into complicated rocks called humans with no free will.

Long ago it became clear to me that the materialistic evolutionary part of that credo was false.

But I was on board with the cosmology part. After all, we see rocket ships going to and fro, there is a "Space Force," pictures of Earth and planets abound, astronauts float around and in the International Space Station, thousands of people and billions of dollars support it, and, of course, "all" the experts believe.

To question this is to be a conspiracy theorist, misinformationist, or even a lunatic. Oh my, we must, after all, follow the crowd.

The idea that we are being lied to about space didn't even enter my mind until a few months ago when what was left of my naive and trusting innocence had been totally demolished with the COVID-19 fraud.

We, the crowd, extend our trust to institutions charged with looking after our interests. But government, Big Medicine, education, media, industry, Big Tech, science, and NASA chase money, their own security, and even power over us.

That should not inspire confidence in beliefs they create, promote, protect with censorship, and even demand acceptance of.

If we want truth, we have to find it ourselves. To do that requires the opposite of trusting in others. It means sleuthing what the powers that be try to hide from us in internet archives, banned videos, censored "disinformation," and what "fact checkers" say isn't so.

Probing into the subject I was stunned to learn that:

Nobody, including any scientist, can prove any aspect of the approved cosmogony/cosmology belief using experimentation and the scientific method.

That means unproven beliefs, stories, and even fakery are being passed off as science and truth.

This subject may seem inconsequential to everyday life. But that's only true if we aren't being lied to about it. If the truth is being hidden from us, we can be sure of one thing, it's not being done for our benefit.

Truth seekers learn that the scale and ostentatiousness of lies being fed to us means nothing can be tacitly trusted.

Everything of importance from government, media, industry, medicine, education, economics, science, history, religion, and popular society must be assumed to be false unless we prove otherwise by doing our homework and thinking critically.

This series will provide wake-up information to help you discover lies as big as the universe.

Debate: IS THE BIBLE THE WORD OF THE CREATOR?

R. Wysong is of the negative.

D. Nemos is of the affirmative.

Both participants agree:

A. That there is a Creator that is factually, rationally, and scientifically provable

B. That materialism and evolution are factually, rationally, and scientifically false

R. Wysong proofs | D. Nemos proofs

WYSONG comments are bordered in blue.

NEMOS comments are bordered in green.

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?
2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?
3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?
4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?
5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?
6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?
7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?
8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?
9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?
10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

Wysong:

Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

Beliefs based upon events of the past are best derived from reliable evidence, such as eyewitness accounts, artifacts, archeology, paleontology, reliable dating, and self-written documents. That's the preferred evidence used by historians to create a credible history.

That's not the evidence available for god figures, of which there are thousands. It's noteworthy that the gods, prophets, great sages, and theologians upon which religions are based have all died out. None are around or being born into our day to interview and check credentials. Those who do appear as our contemporaries always turn out to be either frauds or far less than claimed.

Notice that it's always in the ancient past when nothing can be verified with certainty that the great religious figures existed. Religions capitalize on the human inclination to ascribe greater credit to the unfamiliar than to the familiar. People and script in the distant past, from a different country, with a different language, somehow always seem more fascinating and believable than our neighbors and contemporary writings.

A case in point is Christianity.

(The following history of Christianity threw me for a loop when I first discovered it. As I learn more, I'm more and more astonished. But, as is apparent in our dissection of evolution, materialism, and religion thus far, consensus views being out of step with reality are not only common but expected. If what follows seems too unbelievable, please delve more deeply by perusing the sources in the Resource section for this chapter or Internet search any of the terms, names, or phrases.)

Noncontemporary Hearsay Evidence

Exceptional claims, particularly related to events in the misty past, demand evidence, not uncritical acceptance.

Instead, religions are usually founded on the most unreliable support of all, namely noncontemporary hearsay evidence. That means we today are relying on the writings of someone testifying about a religious figure. But that person is reporting what they heard or read about the stories of someone else who did not even live at the same time as the religious figure upon which the religion is based.

Imagine one day being dragged into court to face an accuser who got on the stand and said under oath, "I heard from someone who heard from someone else who heard from someone else—who can't be found and was not born until the year 2000—that you were a serial killer in 1961." There's no evidence other than the accuser's word. Of course, no judge or jury in a just society would take for granted the accuser's hearsay words. A qualified judge would throw the matter out before it ever got to trial.

Tragically, throughout history, the firm belief in such sham evidence has been used to kill and torture millions.

Courts interested in truth only allow direct eyewitness evidence, logic, expert witnesses, circumstantial evidence, scientific, and other demonstrative evidence. What courts forbid is hearsay evidence, particularly if it's noncontemporary.

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Reliable Evidence

People today agree that many god figures, such as Hercules and Zeus, didn't exist. Reliable evidence is lacking.

Astonishingly, I found that there is scholarly debate today about whether Jesus is a historical figure or an imagined religious playmate. Even many of the earliest Christians did not espouse the belief.

Bible scholars rely upon tenuous evidence to argue that he did exist. But that's either because they have a vested interest in their own belief or position, or because it's safe. It's safe because it's impossible to prove a negative. One cannot prove that Santa Claus, tooth fairies, or any proposed figure of the past, like Jesus, did not exist. That would require universal knowledge of all potential hiding places in the universe which, of course, no one possesses.

True history, which is not tradition, myth, opinion, belief, or hearsay, traces to the sources. Generally, accepted historical figures such as Alexander the Great, the Caesars, Napoleon, Hitler, Greek philosophers, etc., are usually supported by artifacts, busts, first-hand writings, and eyewitness accounts.

However, no bust of Jesus sculpted by a contemporary can be found. None of the Bible writers describe the physical appearance of Jesus, as was common in historical writings about noted people. There are no proven Jesus artifacts, no eyewitness testimonies, no descendants with pedigrees, and no works of carpentry, dwellings, or written documents attributable to him. Although this is also true for other figures who are thought to be valid historically, it would seem that mountains of incontestable evidence would exist for Jesus, considered to be the same as the Creator by most Christians.

No Eyewitness Accounts

The Bible is thought to be a first-hand eyewitness account. However, the stories are actually from authors who lived after the events happened. Christian song stories, word of mouth accounts, and writings were passed on for decades and centuries throughout the Middle East and Roman Empire. Only later were writings winnowed into the holy books upon which billions of readers, today and in the past, base beliefs.

Imagine trying to recall accurately what somebody said a month ago, let alone decades or hundreds of years ago. Even if there were first-person accounts, imagine attempting to recall and write the exact words from another person decades after the words were spoken.

All the New Testament documents turn out to be just copies of copies of copies of noncontemporary hearsay evidence, the most unreliable of all evidence.

Moreover, the early church, the holder of the copies upon which the Bible was based, was not above fabrication and prevarication. For example, Ignatius of Loyola, the theologian founder of the Jesuits, wrote: "To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black if the Hierarchical Church so decides it." The early church father and sainted John Chrysostom wrote: "And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."

Contemporary Writers

Astonishingly, there is no support for Jesus from contemporary Roman, Jewish, or Greek writings.

Josephus was ostensibly a Jewish noble, a general in wars against the Romans, and then a defector who later even assumed the emperor Vespasian's family name of Flavius. Flavius Josephus, in his Antiquities book, was the earliest historian to mention Jesus and his brother, James. But he was not born until 37CE, which was after Jesus' reported death. He didn't write Antiquities until 93 CE. The small portion of his writings, about a paragraph, called the "Testimonium Flavianum," uncharacteristically (since Josephus was a Jew and remained such) affirms Jesus as the Messiah.

A survey by Feldman found that 4 scholars regard the passage as completely genuine, 6 more as mostly genuine; 20 accept it with some interpolations (putting words in another person's mouth—meaning later editors inserted the words and ascribed them to Josephus), 9 thought there to be several interpolations; 13 regard it as being totally an interpolation. The Caesar editors and/or the Catholic Eusebius reportedly did this Jesus insertion in the third to fourth century CE.

The reference to Jesus as Messiah would create some much-needed secular evidence for an earthly Jesus. Thus, it has been enthusiastically used by Christians ever since.

Huge amounts of ink have been spilled arguing whether Josephus affirms the existence of Jesus or not. In those puddles of ink can be found compelling evidence and arguments that Josephus was, in fact, a fictional character created by the Romans who devised Christianity to quash the continuously rebellious Jews. The New Testament stories, particularly the Gospels, written, accumulated, and given imprimatur by Caesars in the second to fourth centuries, follow quite closely the Josephus writings dated at 93 CE. This would make the Gospels not original accounts of Christianity, but copies of Roman writings some sixty years after the time of Jesus.

Most scholars regard the New Testament as pro-Roman. Others take it a step further arguing that Christianity is a mere Roman political device to create a story that fulfills awaited Jewish prophesies. By blending Judaism with the new Christian religion, the Caesars created a new Roman controlled messianic Jewish religion that was inclusive of all peoples under the Roman domain.

Roman Christianity was opened to Jew and Gentile alike, abrogating the Jewish claim to being god's chosen people. This had the effect of denying their clannishness which fed their rebellious proclivities. The Roman Jesus messiah preached "turn the other cheek" anti-sedition, and kept the money flowing to Rome with Jesus' command to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's." This pacifistic and Roman obedience message served well the interests of Caesars, and later their religious heirs, the Roman Catholic popes, who arrogated to themselves "Christ on Earth" authority and power.

If we keep in mind that Rome was the greatest power on Earth at the time, and primarily interested in keeping that position and power, such shenanigans with religion are to be expected. Think of the covert and deceptive things governments do to this day to retain or expand their power. Nothing is beyond bounds.

More so was this true in the past when plebian ignorance was enforced and people were constantly reminded of the consequences of disobedience by public executions and impaled bodies and heads scattered strategically about like billboards. Religions were the greatest threat since they required homage to other than Roman leaders and engendered enthusiastic rebellious gumption. To deal with that, the Caesars simply adopted religious beliefs into an amalgamated state religion with them at the head.

In that regard, it is of note that the first official Christian religion is called, to this day, the Holy Roman Catholic Church. This name embraces the very purpose of the Caesars: one universal (the definition of "catholic") Roman authority.

A common Christian retort to the idea that Rome and Christianity are inextricably related are the stories of early Christian persecution and martyrdom at the hands of Romans. But historical research demonstrates that Christians assimilated well into Roman society, as was the objective of the Caesars, and were not singled out for persecution, other than in stories created hundreds of years after a person's death.

But there was utility in this theme of heroic martyrdom, which, not coincidentally, emulated Greek, Roman, and Jewish mythologies. In ancient times, death was common everywhere all the time. So, a heroic death at least gave a person longevity in legends. Moreover, the state would kill people for picayune infractions, or even reports of such. It's likely that many Christian deaths were due to matters entirely unrelated to Christianity. As it turns out though, people were venerated hundreds of years after their deaths in order to serve the purposes of those venerating them. Stories of "martyrs" banded people together in an us-against-them mentality, used in religions down to this day.

An internet search will provide you (living 2000 years since the purported events) with a lifetime of study to try to determine if the words of someone of questionable existence, Flavius Josephus, writing in 93 CE, proves the existence of people living more than 60 years before that.

Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius, Lucian, Origen and other early religious writers mentioning Jesus were also not contemporaries of Jesus. The dates of documents and the birthdates of the writers always give the writers away as unreliable storytellers expressing beliefs, not facts, about Jesus' existence.

All their testimony is, therefore, hearsay as well.

The Bible claims great multitudes and fame followed Jesus and that Jewish high priests and Roman officials knew of him. The Bible describes a three-day eclipse, an earthquake with graves opening up at the time of Jesus. Not a single historian, philosopher, scribe, astronomer or follower who lived during the alleged time of Jesus ever mentions him or these spectacular events. This is in spite of historians, poets, orators, and travelers aplenty in the time of Jesus.

Although Pontius Pilate has been verified archeologically, there is no secular evidence of him trying Jesus. Nor is there such evidence of Herod killing all the baby boys in Bethlehem (although the historical Herod seemed capable of such atrocity). Additionally, there are many Roman records of the killing of many messiahs, but none for Jesus.

This incredible silence is particularly noteworthy since Jerusalem was a center for scribes, books, education, and record keeping.

Philo Judaeus (also known as Philo of Alexander) was born in 20 BC and died 50 CE, spanning the entire life of Jesus. He was considered the most noteworthy Jewish-Hellenistic historian of the time. He lived and traveled in Greece and Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus and wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area and of a pre-Christian celestial Jewish messiah. In all of his volumes of writings, there isn't one reference to an earthly Jesus.

There is also no mention of an earthly Jesus in other historical writings of the time, such as from:

Aulus Perseus (60 CE)

Columella (1st cent, CE)

Dio Chrysostom (1st cent, CE)

Justus of Tiberius (1st cent, CE)

Livy (59 BC-17 CE)

Lucanus (63 AD)

Lucius Florus (1st cent, CE)

Petronius (66 CE)

Phaedrus (15 BC-50 CE)

Phlegon (1st cent, CE)

Pliny the Elder (23-79 CE)

Plutarch (46-119 CE)

Pomponius Mela (40 CE)

Rufus Curtius (1st cent, CE)

Quintilian (35-LOO CE)

Quintus Curtius (1st cent, CE)

Seneca (1 BC-65 CE)

Silius Italicus (25-101 CE)

Statius Caeliaus (1st cent, CE)

Theon of Smyrna (70-135 CE)

Valerius Flaccus (1st cent, CE)

Valerius Maximus (20 CE)

Gospels and Letters

Although it is thought that the four gospels were the only ones and were written by contemporary disciples of Jesus, that cannot be established as true. For one thing, the texts of the gospels do not identify their authors. Nor have any of the originals been found. For another, Irenaeus of Lyon, who lived in the middle of the second century, primarily chose certain gospels from among many that were lost or destroyed. Some early Christians accepted one gospel, others accepted four, while others accepted more than four.

Historians date the writing of the gospels from 70 CE to 90 CE which would put them beyond the feasible age of the disciples (given the short lifespans for common people of the day). Besides, the disciples were likely illiterate peasants not capable of the sophisticated language and style in the gospels.

The gospel writers do not admit to actually seeing Jesus. They were not eyewitnesses.

Paul's and others' New Testament letters which follow the gospels reveal that the authors never met a physical Jesus.

The gospels do cite historically verified people, events, and places which seem to give credibility to the stories. But inventing historical events that are then seeded with real places and people is common in fictional stories. Historicizing myths is done even today in fiction such as Superman and Star Trek.

There Should Be Unequivocal Evidence

The laws of nature, the things of creation, are clear, unequivocal, and universally understood by people of all cultures and languages. There is no interpretation of 2+2 or that heavy things fall down. People of all rank and file understand perfectly.

Jesus is worshipped as a god-man on Earth in whom all must believe to be saved. If that be the case, the Creator of the universe would be capable of making sure the evidence for the existence of Jesus on Earth was overwhelming unambiguous and crystal clear, like 2+2=4.

The question looms as to why a pivotal and critical figure that people are required to believe in was not born in our modern era. Rather than handwritten scraps of copies of copies of unknown origin, there could be first-hand documents, photographs, recordings, interviews, videos, DNA testing, forensic technology, and other means to prove beyond any doubt the existence and acts of Jesus.

Nevertheless, people en masse, Christian and not, believe Jesus and his acts are certain. I did too at one time. That's what happens when faith trumps reason and evidence and even lack thereof.

To repeat, a quick internet search will provide an almost endless array of information briefly touched upon here. Search words and names in this chapter as well as phrases such as "did Jesus exist," "pagan origins of Christianity," "origin of the Bible," etc. (truthbeknown.com is a good start.)

Why Belief

There were cultural and religious reasons for belief in a messiah. In 70 CE, under Titus, the Romans laid waste to Jerusalem. About a thousand desperate Jews later took a stand on Masada and rather than be captured or slaughtered, committed suicide. Indeed, these were times in need of a savior.

The Jews had prophesized one in the Old Testament and fervently hoped one would appear to lead them out from the oppression of the Romans and into the Promised Land. As this oppression was escalating, savior stories were being composed and written, and messiahs popped up here and there. These provided hope and served to authenticate Hebrew scripture and validate the Jewish priests. Forced fulfillment of prophecy was common.

Today many scholars (not all) agree that an unremarkable Clark Kent physical Jesus did exist. However, they do not agree that he was the Superman version walking on water, raising the dead, etc. Myths abounded in the time of Jesus, as even the Bible admits. (2Peter1:16) Scholars thus conclude, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, and due to the shared features with prior pagan gods described in the debate topic, that the Superman version of Jesus was a myth as well. They contend that the sensational version of Jesus, complete with a resurrection and the ability to erase sin was needed.

The Roman goal was enduring awe and dedication from the masses, so a fantastic story worthy of a god fit the bill. Once the state fostered Christianity with Caesars as god personified and the fulfillment of Jewish messiah stories (Roman popes taking over later where Caesars left off), people had little choice but to believe. Today, however, it's the sheer momentum and ubiquity of the belief in itself that is compelling. People find it hard even to imagine that a belief so prevalent, supported by so much voice and ink, and with such stature, architectural presence, religious hierarchy, scholarship, and wealth could be questionable.

I had been swept along in this belief as well. But fealty to truth, the Creator, always defeats belief and faith.

Resources for further study:

Acharya, S., The Christ Conspiracy, The Greatest Story Ever Sold.
Atwill, Joseph, Caesar's Messiah.
Carotta, Francesco, Jesus Was Caesar, On the Julian Origin of Christianity.
Carrier, Richard, On the Historicity of Jesus, Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt.
Dyer, Jay, Christian apologist refuting those who doubt the Bible and Jesus' existence, 🔗jaysanalysis.com/category/apologetics.
Ellerbe, Helen, The Dark Side of Christian History.
Fitzgerald, David, Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All.
Freke, Timothy, The Jesus Mysteries, Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God?
Humphreys, Kenneth, Jesus Never Existed, An Introduction to the Ultimate Heresy.
Jabbar, Malik H., The Astrological Foundation of The Christ Myth, Book One.
Murdock, Dorothy, Scholarly examination of the history of pagan and Christian religions and their parallels. 🔗truthbeknown.com.
Piso, Roman, Piso Christ, A Book of the New Classical Scholarship.
Reuchlin, Abelard, The true authorship of the New Testament.
Robinson, D. C., Caesar's Messiah – Why the Church MUST Answer, A Discourse/Reflection on Joseph Atwill's Caesar's.
Valliant, James, Creating Christ, How Roman Emperors Invented Christianity.
Wikipedia. Christ Myth Theory, an exhaustive and documented discussion of pros and cons, proponents and critics. 🔗wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory.
Williams, Walter, The Historical Origin of Christianity.

Nemos:

... in progress ...

Nemos:

Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

. . . in progress . . .

Wysong:

... in progress ...

Religion

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?

2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?

4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

Wysong:

Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

During college, I jettisoned the Christian religion of my youth and climbed on board the prevailing academic, evolutionist, materialistic, and atheistic train. Then, in my early medical years, I discovered the evidence and logic on origins. This was convincing of intelligent causation but gave no direction for where to go from there.

Curious about who this Creator was, various religions and holy books were examined. Critiques of non-Christian religions (written by Christians) and Bible proofs (used by Bible apologists) led me to believe that the Bible was the Creator's word. After all, the Creator, like a human father, would surely want to talk to its creation. I settled on a Bible-based religion that seemed most rational and faithful to the book.

This led to an immersion in Bible apologetics, hermeneutics, and critical evaluation of competing religions. After all, if this was the true religion, the others were false and had to be exposed so their followers could escape the Bible's imminent apocalypse.

Although reading contrary literature was strongly discouraged, it seemed that if this religion was the truth there should be no fear of any information. Such exploration resulted in discoveries and epiphanies that shook my beliefs.

I shared these with fellow believers. The headquarters of the religion was also contacted for rebuttals to Bible passages that seemed to disprove some of their doctrines. The result was a visit (trial of sorts) by a leader. Satisfactory answers weren't given and it became clear that compliance, not truth, was the real agenda of the organization. So, after about three years of this sidetrack in the quest for truth, I moved on.

The break was not nearly as clean and neat as that sounds. What I was doing was considered apostasy and heresy. Nor was it easy to leave behind so many friends, although several I spoke to about what I was discovering fell away along with me. The sense of belonging and comradery in this religion were powerful draws. Leaving behind a religion you commit to can be like having your world collapse in on you. But, truth was the goal. Living in a lie was not possible.

Looking back, the experience was an invaluable awakening to independent and open thinking and what it's like to be willingly brain-washed.

After leaving this religion, exploration widened to include information that challenged the very notion that the Bible was written (inspired) by the Creator of the universe.

In examining the earliest moorings of Judaism and Christianity, it was astonishing to learn that virtually everything in the Bible was known and practiced in cultures prior to the Bible. This included Minoan, Egyptian, Indus Valley, Etruscan, Greek, and Roman civilizations. The Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Hymn of Ra, the Gilgamesh Epic, Ovid's Metamorphoses, the Enuma Elish mythology, and many other religions/mythologies cross-pollinate the Bible and other holy books.

Features of gods, some dating back thousands of years before Christianity, include a heroic male demigod, often the son of a god and a mortal woman, miracles surrounding the birth, atonement, original sin, births announced by stars, birth at a December 25 solstice (Greco-Roman sun gods), tyrants trying to kill them in infancy, passion and violent death, bearing sins so humans could rise to heaven, rising from the dead, worshiped by "wise men," fasting for 40 days, baptism by water, twelve followers, miracles such as water walking and changing water into wine, the demigod being referred to as "king of kings," "lamb of god," "alpha and omega," "the truth," "the light," and likened to both a lion and a lamb, resurrection to eternal life, considered a savior and redeemer, and more.

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Many gods before Christianity were worshipped as a trinity. For example, Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva; Horus-Isis-Osiris; Astarte-Anat-Quedesht; Dionysus-Demeter-Poseidon; Attis-Maia-Zeus; Astarte- Eshmun-Melkarth. Other pre-Christian doctrines include holy water, confession, penance, salvation based upon belief, priestly garb and ritual, Sunday worship, Saturday worship, temples, sacrificial blood, wine as blood (Dionysus cult), Eucharist communion, idolatrous reverence for holy writings, the cross symbol, three crosses with thieves to the side, halos, tithing, the Christmas tree, Easter, an end-time apocalypse, eternal punishment, a devil, hellfire, and more.

Consider the mythological god Attis, 1250 BC:

Was born on December 25th of the Virgin Nana
Was considered the "only begotten son" and killed for the salvation of humankind
His followers had a meal of bread that represented him
His priests were eunuchs
He was both the Divine Son and the Father
On Friday he was crucified on a tree
He descended into the underworld
After three days he was resurrected

Many Christian features trace back to ancient sun worship and the astrologicalthough he did stumble with the fleshal zodiac. The sun made crops grow, brought warmth, gave light, and vanquished the terrifying predator-filled darkness. Little wonder it was worshiped as savior and light of the world. The sun was seen to pass through twelve major star constellations during a twelve-month year giving rise to the four-seasons in the cross of the zodiac. The sun was anthropomorphized as were the star constellations.

Notice the features of the Egyptian sun god Horus, 3000 BC, as compared to modern-day Christianity:

Born December 25th
Born of a virgin
Birth accompanied by a star in the East
Adored as a savior by three kings
Child-teacher in a temple
Baptized at 30 and began ministry
12 disciples
Called a lamb, lion, and identified with a cross
Trinity
Performed miracles like healings, water walking, fishing bounty, seven loaves feeding a multitude, raising people from the dead
Known as "truth," "the light," "God's anointed one," "lamb of god"
Betrayed by a friend, crucified, dead for three days
Resurrected
A Millennial reign . . . (271 Egyptian-Christian parallels are found at: asifthinkingmatters.com/preexistingdata)

The symbols in the zodiac are not just an artistic tool to track the sun, stars, and seasons. The zodiac doubles as a pagan religious symbol. For example, the bright star in the East is Sirius, which on December 24th aligns with the three kings. These stars in Orion's Belt point to the sunrise on December 25th. Thus the three kings "follow" the bright star in the East to locate the sunrise, the birth of the sun (son). This mimics the events surrounding the Christmas story.

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There are 12 parts of the astrological zodiac. Notice there are 12 disciples of Jesus, 12 tribes, kings, judges, and princes of Israel, 12 brothers of Joseph, and Jesus was at the temple at age 12.

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Jesus is often shown superimposed on the sun in the middle of the astrological cross. (Incidentally, the Romans crucified people on stakes, not crosses, if for no other reason than the impracticality of building stable crosses.)

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In the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam there are most especially common themes and doctrines. Christianity morphed out of Judaism and paganism, and Islam morphed out of both Judaism and Christianity. Judaism morphed out of the pagan religions preceding or concurrent with it, such as monotheistic Zoroastrianism.

Christianity thus appears as an amalgam of Jewish, Greek, and pagan beliefs. Since the early Christians lived among these cultures, it's little wonder that the people and the times would influence the Jesus story. There was also a practical aspect to this plagiarism. Christian states found it useful to adopt beliefs of the people they conquered to help assimilation and decrease the potential for rebellion.

Although this information was new to me, it was by no means new. For example, Higgins (1772-1833), in his Anacalypsis, concluded: "One thing is clear — the mythos of the Hindus, the mythos of the Jews and the mythos of the Greeks are all at bottom the same; and what is called their early histories are not histories of humankind, but are contrivances under the appearance of histories to perpetuate doctrines."

Most astonishing is the fact that a number of writers in the first four centuries, including Christians, knew of the plagiarism. For example, sainted Justin Martyr (100 CE), a pagan turned Christian, attempted to defend Christianity in the face of pagan claims that Christianity was nothing more than a rehash of their gods. Being well aware of pagan beliefs, Martyr didn't deny this but rather defended Christianity with his absurd "diabolical mimicry" argument: Satan read the Old Testament prophesies about the messiah and imitated Christ in the form of pagan gods prior to Jesus. In other words, any parallels to paganism are the devil's doing and should create no doubt that Jesus was god and did the things said of him. But pagan writers, such as Celsus, would have none of it. Pagans were used to syncretism (the amalgamation of different religions) among pagan religions and easily recognized Christian plagiarism.

Clearly, if Bible-based religions are truth and not human imaginings, they should stand alone, be unique, and historically first. So, it is shocking to learn that the mythological pagan gods anathematized and ridiculed by Christendom, were antecedents to all of Christendom's doctrines and provide proof that the Bible is not the work of the Creator.

Resources for further study:

🔗ancientfacts.net/5-holy-books-predate-bible/?view=all.
George, G. M., James' Stolen Legacy, The Egyptian Origins of Western Philosophy.
Hebrew earliest writings. 🔗livescience.com/8008-bible-possibly-written-centuries-earlier-text-suggests.html.
Jackson, John, Christianity Before Christ, and Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth.
Judaism, Pagan Origins. 🔗youtube.com/watch?v=ZECezMYug8c.
Religions Predating the Bible. 🔗oldest.org/religion/religious-texts.
Holy Book History
Johnson, P., A History of Christianity. Harmondsworth, Penguin Books, 1980.
Pagels, E., The Gnostic Gospels. New York, Vintage Books, 1989.
Sunderland, J., The Origin and Character of the Bible. Boston, The Beacon Press, 1947.
Religion
Religious History. 🔗truthbeknown.com.

Nemos:

... in progress ...

Nemos:

Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

. . . in progress . . .

Wysong:

... in progress ...

Religion

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?

2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?

4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

Wysong:

Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

For believers, the ace in the hole for Creator authorship of the Bible is prophecy. For example, one Internet Bible apologist proclaims that "2,500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2,000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors."

This works if you confine yourself to limited information. However, in no case is there a documented example of people reading a holy book prophecy at a certain date, then taking action based upon it, then having it come true at a later date.

Even if a prophecy happens to predict accurately, that would not single a holy book out as being unique or divinely written. Quantum reality permits clairvoyance and there is substantial evidence, in real time, today, that people not claiming to be inspired by god can make accurate predictions (prophesies).

A remarkable example of this is the dreams of Dr. Andrew Paguette. For decades he has cataloged dreams at one date and then have the events of the dream happen at a later time. He has comprised a research dataset from dozens of dream journals containing over 15,000 dream records produced over a period of three decades. He makes no claim to being an agent of or inspired by the Creator or any religion.

But by the prophesy = Creator authorship standard, Dr. Paquette's prophesies would prove his records are of the Creator and therefore an addendum to the Bible.

Prophesy has allegedly also been discovered in ancient cultures predating the Bible. For example, the Dogon tribe in West Africa has lore dating to 3200 BC about a companion star to Sirius. They say it has a 50-year elliptical orbit, is super dense, and rotates on its axis. The star is called Sirius B. It's smaller than Earth, invisible to the naked eye, not discovered by astronomers until 1862, and not photographed until 1970. The Dogon also described a third Sirius star (C), not discovered until 1995 with .05 the mass of Sirius B. Many Dogon details are said to have been found in 400-year-old artifacts.

Long before Galileo invented the telescope, the Dogon are reported to have explained that Jupiter has four major moons, and Saturn has rings. Does this mean the Dogon are inspired by the Creator? Using Bible inspiration logic, that would have to be so. Yes, the Dogon lore is disputed by scientists. So too the Bible's lore. Such is the way of things made of men.

People can, after the fact, retrodict (find an event, then find something in the past that supposedly predicted it) and use this reverse engineering to show proofs of prophecy.

For example, the 911 Trade Center destruction has been shown to be predicted in Star Wars, and by reading certain texts upside down, diagonally, and backward. Consider how words and numbers can be used to show extraordinary things, whether or not they are found in a holy book: 9/11 is the date of the Trade Center terrorist attack and 911 is the emergency number; 9+1+1=11; 9-11(September 11) is the 254th day of the year, 2+5+4=11; After 9-11 there are one hundred and 11 days left in the year; The twin towers look like an 11; The first flight to hit the towers was 11; There were 92 people on board: 9+2=11; New York is the 11th state added to the union; New York City has 11 letters; The winning lottery number on that day was 911. All of this was elaborated after the event.

Such coincidences surrounding various events and written words provide fuel for endless conspiracy, prophetic, and inspirational theories.

The Apollo 13 mission, launched on April 11, 1970 (the sum of 4, 11, and 70 equals 85 – which when added together comes to 13), from Pad 39 (three times 13) at 13:13 local time, and exploded on April 13. All elaborated after the explosion.

⌕ Click to enlarge

Some Kabbalistic Jews go so far as to attach meaning to the spacing between words.

A favorite evangelistic tactic is to prophesize the end of the world. The message is simple: Believe what my religion says, or be doomed in a coming apocalypse. That message certainly caught my attention at one time. If the end was coming, I wanted my family and me on the boat. It led me through all sorts of hermeneutical exercises cross-referencing passages all over the Bible to verify the date Bible scholars said was certain.

We are vulnerable to a doomsday message because people throughout time have thought that the world revolves around them and that they and their special generation have been singled out. It is human to think that our time is the best of times and the worst of times.

Consider the words from an Assyrian tablet, 2800 B.C. (notice that's BC): "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."

Writers of holy books were like all other people and were dramatically influenced by the political events of their times, surrounding religious beliefs, and natural disasters thought to be acts of their gods.

At the very time that Christian Biblical stories were being composed, Pompeii and its sister Roman city, Herculaneum, were turned to ashes by the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius (79 CE). A memory was embedded that echoed through centuries. It and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE created the language and metaphors for Biblical eschatology (final prophetic events) that have inspired prophetic doom for the past 2000 years.

When Vesuvius erupted, an estimated 4,000 feet of the 8,000-foot mountain exploded into the sky and across land and sea. The sun darkened as far away as Rome. But people closer to ground zero were blinded. When they attempted a breath, they inhaled volcanic cinders that were more than a thousand degrees. The pyroclastic flow was so fast and lethal that it would disintegrate a person before nerves could transmit to the brain that anything was even happening.

Food and water were decimated. Disease became rampant. The volcano's impact on life and survival created a memory that burnt into minds for centuries.

⌕ Click to enlarge

The "world," to the Italians, was Rome and its provinces. For Pompeii and Herculaneum, the Vesuvian cataclysm was interpreted as an act of gods to end the world.

The Vesuvian end of the world and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. provided fodder for religious stories. It was not enough to simply experience or observe such events. The survivors perceived deeper meaning and a cause other than blind nature.

Dio Cassius, some 130 years after the eruption, wrote in his History of Rome:

". . . giants (black volcanic dust clouds) appeared, now, on the mountain, now in the surrounding country, and again in the cities, wandering over the Earth day and night, and also flitting through the air . . . day was turned into night and light into darkness . . . a sound of trumpets was heard . . . others believed the whole universe was being resolved into chaos and fire . . . it destroyed all fish and birds . . . believed the whole world was being turned upside down, that the sun was disappearing into the Earth, and the Earth was being lifted into the sky . . . a terrible pestilence upon them."

Out of the mix of the Vesuvius disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the desire for an end to Roman persecution, the apocalyptic narrative in the New Testament was created.

Dio's account of the Vesuvius eruption contains language practically identical to the Bible's apocalyptic verses written at a similar time:

"There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down . . . there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened . . . and lightning will come out of the east and shine even into the west . . . the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give light, and the stars shall fall from heaven . . . and great earthquakes, and famines and pestilences and fearful sights and great signs will there be from heaven – the sea and the waves roaring and men's hearts filling with fear . . . the angel took the censer and filled it with fire and cast it to Earth and there were voices, thunderings, lightnings and earthquakes . . . followed hail mingled with fire and blood . . . and a third of the trees were burnt up. And the second angel sounded and a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea, and a third part of the sea became blood and a third of the creatures in the sea died . . . and he opened the bottomless pit and there arose smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened . . . and I saw the three horses of the apocalypse and these three were the third part of the men killed by the smoke and brimstone." (Revelation)

Now, some 1700 years later, Bible readers ignore the political, religious, volcanic, and historical context of the writings. Anti-typical, modern-day, end-of-our-world meaning is attached to those ancient words with author attribution given to the Creator of the universe.

End-time musings by apocalyptic religionists can fuel unspeakable hatred. If we become convinced that the end is imminent, that our group has been singled out as superior to all others by the authority of god and our special belief, and that our actions can hasten the end and speed us to our great reward (such as stature in heaven or a bounty of virgins), then almost any atrocity can be justified. Millions have been butchered in holy wars fomented by holy book end-time prophesies.

The president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, spent millions renovating Tehran in preparation for the imminent return of the Mahdi, a ninth-century figure who will emerge from a well, partner with Jesus, and violently convert the world to Islam.

At the same time, messianic Jews are trying to get the cornerstones for a new temple in place to be ready for the coming of their Messiah and the end to Islam. Clyde Lott, a Mississippi preacher, is attempting to breed blemish-free red heifers (red hairs only) for export to Jerusalem. The Bible says (Numbers 19:2-10) their sacrifice and ashes are necessary to purify the Jews to build the temple. Muslims specify a yellow heifer.

For many Bible believers, the end times started clicking on May 15, 1948, when the United Nations recognized Israel. So, there is no time to spare in making prophecy fit world events. Every disaster, every conflict in the world gladdens a prophet of doom somewhere.

End-of-the-world religious predictions fuel fear, false hope, and satisfy our it's-all-about-me obsession. They serve to keep a lot of people industriously calculating dates and watching the newspapers hoping they read more and more like the events presaging Revelation's Armageddon, or Islam's coming of al-Mahdi and "The Hour." Almost fifty percent of the population believes their god will bring an end to the world within the next fifty years, rewarding the believers and slaughtering the unbelievers.

⌕ Click to enlarge

If there is a divine plan that the Creator wants us to know, and it includes the end of the world, why would it be made a mystery? Certainly, if there is honesty, justice, and truth (which there is), all of us should have equal access. We should not be faced with the impossible task of trying to find out which modern or ancient "prophet" (among the tens of thousands) has the right prediction.

Holiness, purity, grace, or ethics have nothing to do with making presumptuous predictions in the name of the Creator of the universe. Life is about getting out there and doing and being good, not attempting to discern ancient manuscripts to calculate end-time prophecies.

1. Quantum reality proves that present, past, and future are one.

https://www.asifthinkingmatters.com/solving-the-big-questions-third-edition/34-matter-is-an-illusion; https://www.asifthinkingmatters.com/solving-the-big-questions-third-edition/36-even-weirder-things

2. People in the here and now have scientifically proven abilities of clairvoyance, pre-cognition, premonitions, and presentiment (prophesy).

Participants in some studies successfully dream about a picture that would be chosen by others the next day. Others can describe locations experimenters would visit before the locations had even been decided upon. Even dogs have been proven to be able to predict when an owner is coming home.

Thousands of controlled laboratory tests prove mind is not tied to time. For example, study participants monitored similarly to lie detector testing will show an excitatory response prior to an exciting image shown on a screen. (See Dr. Dean Radin resource below)

The famous 16th-century French seer, Nostradamus, wrote a letter to Henry II that was published in 1555. Therein he predicted the precise year of the French Revolution (200 years in the future), and other details related to it.

In 1625, the German, John Englebrecht, described the storming of the Bastille some 154 years in the future.

The American Civil War soldier, John Davis, foresaw war events that only came to pass after he had died.

Jacob Burkhardt, Stormberger, Edgar Cayce, Heinrich Heine, Madame Blavatsky, Lanz von Liebenfels, and others made remarkable predictions about world wars.

The Amazing Kreskin has made a series of fulfilled prophecies over the years.

George Orwell's book, 1984, written in 1950, pretty much predicted what we are presently going through, 73 years future to his book.

Research proving prophesy abilities of regular humans uninspired by a Bible-god:

-Barker, J. C., Premonitions of the Aberfan Disaster. Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, 55 (1967), 189-237.
-Behe, G., Titanic, Psychic Forewarnings of a Tragedy. Wellingborough, Patrick Stephens, 1988.
-Bem, Dr. Daryl, 🔗news.cornell.edu/stories/2010/12/study-looks-brains-ability-see-future; 🔗skeptiko.com/daryl-bem-responds-to-parapsychology-debunkers.
-Boundary Institute. Premonitions of 9/11. 1 Feb 2008. 🔗boundaryinstitute.org/premon911.htm.
-Brennan, J. H., Time Travel. St. Paul, Llewellyn Worldwide, 2003.
-Cayce, Edgar, 🔗edgarcayce.org/the-readings/ancient-mysteries/seven-prophecies-that-came-true.
-Cox, W. E., Precognition, An Analysis, II. Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research, 50 (1956), 99-109.
🔗discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time.
-Dossey, Larry, MD, The Science of Premonitions.
-Dunne, B. J., et al., Precognitive Remote Perception. Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory (Report), Aug 1983.
-Feeling the Future, A Meta-analysis of 90 Experiments on the Anomalous Anticipation of Random Future Events. [Under Editorial Review]. 🔗dbem.org/FF Meta-analysis 6.2.pdf.
-Experimental evidence for anomalous retroactive influences on cognition and affect. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 100, 407-425. 🔗dbem.org/FeelingFuture.pdf.
-🔗hogueProphecy.com.
-Honorton, C., et al., Future-telling, A meta-analysis of forced-choice precognition experiments. Journal of Parapsychology, 53 (1989), 281-209.
-Mossbridge, Julie, Ph.D., The Premonition Code, The Science of Precognition. noetic.org.
-Must psychologists change the way they analyze their data? A response to Wagenmakers, Wetzels, Borsboom, & van der Maas (2011). 🔗dbem.org/ResponsetoWagenmakers.pdf.
-One Mind, How Our Individual Mind Is Part of a Greater Consciousness and Why It Matters (Explains why premonition and other seemingly extraordinary abilities are actually ordinary in the underlying reality.)
-Paquette, Andy, Dreamer, 20 years of psychic dreams and how they changed my life.
🔗popsci.com/science/article/2012-09/book-excerpt-there-no-such-thing-time.
-Response to Alcock's "Back from the Future, Comments on Bem." 🔗dbem.org/ResponsetoAlcock.pdf.
-Rosenblatt, Marty, Physicist, 🔗appliedprecog.com.
-Saltmarsh, H., The Future and Beyond, Paranormal Foreknowledge and Evidence of Personal Survival from Cross Correspondences. Charlottesville, Hampton Roads, 2003.
-Schmeidler, G., An Experiment in Precognitive Clairvoyance, Part I, The Main Results and Part 2, The Reliability of The Scores. Journal of Parapsychology, 28 (1964), 1-27.
-Snow, C. B., Mass Dreams of the Future. Sedona, Deep Forest Press, 1989.
-Stratton, J. A., Electromagnetic Theory. New York, McGraw-Hill, 1941.
-Townshend, C. H., Indisputable clairvoyance of M. Adolphe Didier. The Zoist, XI, Apr 1853, 75-78.
-Townshend, C. H., Recent Clairvoyance of Alexis Didier. The Zoist, IX, Jan 1852, 402-411.
-Universe is timeless, permitting access both ways. 🔗platonia.com/barbour_emergence_of_time.pdf.

The proven ability of humans to prophesy is the death knell for the Bible prophesy argument.

Perhaps the healthiest perspective is to not worry about the end of the world today when it is already tomorrow at the other end of the world.

Resources for further study:

Colavito, M., The Heresy of Oedipus and the Mind-Mind Split. New York, Edwin Mellen Press, 1995.
Doland, P., Another Case Not Made, A Critique of Lee Strobel's "The Case for a Creator' (2005). 23 Jun 2008. 🔗infidels.org/library/modern/paul_doland/creator.html.
Festinger, Leon, et al., When Prophecy Fails, a study of cognitive dissonance in those who believe in Prophecy.
Pearce, J., The Biology of Transcendence. Rochester, Park Street Press, 2002.
Pellegrino, C., Ghosts of Vesuvius. New York, HarperCollins Publishers, 2004.
Rapture Ready. 🔗raptureready.com.
Religious Tolerance. 🔗religioustolerance.org.
Prophesy not unique: See Clairvoyance/Premonition under chapter 35 resources.
Barker, J. C., Premonitions of the Aberfan Disaster. Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, 55 (1967), 189-237.
Behe, G., Titanic, Psychic Forewarnings of a Tragedy. Wellingborough, Patrick Stephens, 1988.
Bem, Dr. Daryl, 🔗news.cornell.edu/stories/2010/12/study-looks-brains-ability-see-future; 🔗skeptiko.com/daryl-bem-responds-to-parapsychology-debunkers.
Boundary Institute. Premonitions of 9/11. 1 Feb 2008. 🔗boundaryinstitute.org/premon911.htm.
Brennan, J. H., Time Travel. St. Paul, Llewellyn Worldwide, 2003.
Cayce, Edgar, 🔗edgarcayce.org/the-readings/ancient-mysteries/seven-prophecies-that-came-true.
Cox, W. E., Precognition, An Analysis, II. Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research, 50 (1956), 99-109.
🔗discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time.
Dossey, Larry, MD, The Science of Premonitions.
Dunne, B. J., et al., Precognitive Remote Perception. Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory (Report), Aug 1983.
Feeling the Future, A Meta-analysis of 90 Experiments on the Anomalous Anticipation of Random Future Events. [Under Editorial Review]. 🔗dbem.org/FF Meta-analysis 6.2.pdf; Experimental evidence for anomalous retroactive influences on cognition and affect. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 100, 407-425. 🔗dbem.org/FeelingFuture.pdf.
🔗hogueProphecy.com.
Honorton, C., et al., Future-telling, A meta-analysis of forced-choice precognition experiments. Journal of Parapsychology, 53 (1989), 281-209.
Mossbridge, Julie, Ph.D., The Premonition Code, The Science of Precognition. noetic.org.
Must psychologists change the way they analyze their data? A response to Wagenmakers, Wetzels, Borsboom, & van der Maas (2011). 🔗dbem.org/ResponsetoWagenmakers.pdf.
One Mind, How Our Individual Mind Is Part of a Greater Consciousness and Why It Matters (Explains why premonition and other seemingly extraordinary abilities are actually ordinary in the underlying reality.)
Paquette, Andy, Dreamer, 20 years of psychic dreams and how they changed my life.
🔗popsci.com/science/article/2012-09/book-excerpt-there-no-such-thing-time.
Response to Alcock's "Back from the Future, Comments on Bem." 🔗dbem.org/ResponsetoAlcock.pdf.
Rosenblatt, Marty, Physicist, 🔗appliedprecog.com.
Saltmarsh, H., The Future and Beyond, Paranormal Foreknowledge and Evidence of Personal Survival from Cross Correspondences. Charlottesville, Hampton Roads, 2003.
Schmeidler, G., An Experiment in Precognitive Clairvoyance, Part I, The Main Results and Part 2, The Reliability of The Scores. Journal of Parapsychology, 28 (1964), 1-27.
Snow, C. B., Mass Dreams of the Future. Sedona, Deep Forest Press, 1989.
Stratton, J. A., Electromagnetic Theory. New York, McGraw-Hill, 1941.
Time travel, See resources below.
Townshend, C. H., Indisputable clairvoyance of M. Adolphe Didier. The Zoist, XI, Apr 1853, 75-78.
Townshend, C. H., Recent Clairvoyance of Alexis Didier. The Zoist, IX, Jan 1852, 402-411.
Universe is timeless, permitting access both ways. 🔗platonia.com/barbour_emergence_of_time.pdf.

Nemos:

... in progress ...

Nemos:

Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

Prophecy and Prescience – Tracking Prophetic Predictives

Wysong:

For believers, the ace in the hole for Creator authorship of the Bible is prophecy. For example, one Internet Bible apologist proclaims that "2,500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2,000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors."

This works if you confine yourself to limited information. However, in no case is there a documented example of people reading a holy book prophecy at a certain date, then taking action based upon it, then having it come true at a later date.

Even if a prophecy happens to predict accurately, that would not single a holy book out as being unique or divinely written. Quantum reality permits clairvoyance and there is substantial evidence, in real time, today, that people not claiming to be inspired by god can make accurate predictions (prophesies).

A remarkable example of this is the dreams of Dr. Andrew Paguette. For decades he has cataloged dreams at one date and then have the events of the dream happen at a later time. He has comprised a research dataset from dozens of dream journals containing over 15,000 dream records produced over a period of three decades. He makes no claim to being an agent of or inspired by the Creator or any religion.

But by the prophesy = Creator authorship standard, Dr. Paquette's prophesies would prove his records are of the Creator and therefore an addendum to the Bible.

Prophesy has allegedly also been discovered in ancient cultures predating the Bible. For example, the Dogon tribe in West Africa has lore dating to 3200 BC about a companion star to Sirius. They say it has a 50-year elliptical orbit, is super dense, and rotates on its axis. The star is called Sirius B. It's smaller than Earth, invisible to the naked eye, not discovered by astronomers until 1862, and not photographed until 1970. The Dogon also described a third Sirius star (C), not discovered until 1995 with .05 the mass of Sirius B. Many Dogon details are said to have been found in 400-year-old artifacts.

Long before Galileo invented the telescope, the Dogon are reported to have explained that Jupiter has four major moons, and Saturn has rings. Does this mean the Dogon are inspired by the Creator? Using Bible inspiration logic, that would have to be so. Yes, the Dogon lore is disputed by scientists. So too the Bible's lore. Such is the way of things made of men.

People can, after the fact, retrodict (find an event, then find something in the past that supposedly predicted it) and use this reverse engineering to show proofs of prophecy.

For example, the 911 Trade Center destruction has been shown to be predicted in Star Wars, and by reading certain texts upside down, diagonally, and backward. Consider how words and numbers can be used to show extraordinary things, whether or not they are found in a holy book: 9/11 is the date of the Trade Center terrorist attack and 911 is the emergency number; 9+1+1=11; 9-11(September 11) is the 254th day of the year, 2+5+4=11; After 9-11 there are one hundred and 11 days left in the year; The twin towers look like an 11; The first flight to hit the towers was 11; There were 92 people on board: 9+2=11; New York is the 11th state added to the union; New York City has 11 letters; The winning lottery number on that day was 911. All of this was elaborated after the event.

Such coincidences surrounding various events and written words provide fuel for endless conspiracy, prophetic, and inspirational theories.

The Apollo 13 mission, launched on April 11, 1970 (the sum of 4, 11, and 70 equals 85 – which when added together comes to 13), from Pad 39 (three times 13) at 13:13 local time, and exploded on April 13. All elaborated after the explosion.

⌕ Click to enlarge

⌕ Click to enlarge

". . . giants (black volcanic dust clouds) appeared, now, on the mountain, now in the surrounding country, and again in the cities, wandering over the Earth day and night, and also flitting through the air . . . day was turned into night and light into darkness . . . a sound of trumpets was heard . . . others believed the whole universe was being resolved into chaos and fire . . . it destroyed all fish and birds . . . believed the whole world was being turned upside down, that the sun was disappearing into the Earth, and the Earth was being lifted into the sky . . . a terrible pestilence upon them."

Out of the mix of the Vesuvius disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the desire for an end to Roman persecution, the apocalyptic narrative in the New Testament was created.

Dio's account of the Vesuvius eruption contains language practically identical to the Bible's apocalyptic verses written at a similar time:

"There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down . . . there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened . . . and lightning will come out of the east and shine even into the west . . . the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give light, and the stars shall fall from heaven . . . and great earthquakes, and famines and pestilences and fearful sights and great signs will there be from heaven – the sea and the waves roaring and men's hearts filling with fear . . . the angel took the censer and filled it with fire and cast it to Earth and there were voices, thunderings, lightnings and earthquakes . . . followed hail mingled with fire and blood . . . and a third of the trees were burnt up. And the second angel sounded and a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea, and a third part of the sea became blood and a third of the creatures in the sea died . . . and he opened the bottomless pit and there arose smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened . . . and I saw the three horses of the apocalypse and these three were the third part of the men killed by the smoke and brimstone." (Revelation)

Now, some 1700 years later, Bible readers ignore the political, religious, volcanic, and historical context of the writings. Anti-typical, modern-day, end-of-our-world meaning is attached to those ancient words with author attribution given to the Creator of the universe.

Now, some 1700 years later, Bible readers ignore the political, religious, volcanic, and historical context of the writings.

For example, the Bible says the end was supposed to happen way back in the first century.

Matt 24:34 – "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened"

Matt 16:28 – "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Matt 10:23 – "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes".

Rev 3:11 – "I am coming soon"

Rev 22:7 – "Look, I am coming soon!"

Rev 22:12 – "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done"

Rev 22:20 – "He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon.""

End-time musings by apocalyptic religionists can fuel unspeakable hatred. If we become convinced that the end is imminent, that our group has been singled out as superior to all others by the authority of god and our special belief, and that our actions can hasten the end and speed us to our great reward (such as stature in heaven or a bounty of virgins), then almost any atrocity can be justified. Millions have been butchered in holy wars fomented by holy book end-time prophesies.

The president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, spent millions renovating Tehran in preparation for the imminent return of the Mahdi, a ninth-century figure who will emerge from a well, partner with Jesus, and violently convert the world to Islam.

At the same time, messianic Jews are trying to get the cornerstones for a new temple in place to be ready for the coming of their Messiah and the end to Islam. Clyde Lott, a Mississippi preacher, is attempting to breed blemish-free red heifers (red hairs only) for export to Jerusalem. The Bible says (Numbers 19:2-10) their sacrifice and ashes are necessary to purify the Jews to build the temple. Muslims specify a yellow heifer.

For many Bible believers, the end times started clicking on May 15, 1948, when the United Nations recognized Israel. So, there is no time to spare in making prophecy fit world events. Every disaster, every conflict in the world gladdens a prophet of doom somewhere.

End-of-the-world religious predictions fuel fear, false hope, and satisfy our it's-all-about-me obsession. They serve to keep a lot of people industriously calculating dates and watching the newspapers hoping they read more and more like the events presaging Revelation's Armageddon, or Islam's coming of al-Mahdi and "The Hour." Almost fifty percent of the population believes their god will bring an end to the world within the next fifty years, rewarding the believers and slaughtering the unbelievers.

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Colavito, M., The Heresy of Oedipus and the Mind-Mind Split. New York, Edwin Mellen Press, 1995.
Doland, P., Another Case Not Made, A Critique of Lee Strobel's "The Case for a Creator' (2005). 23 Jun 2008. 🔗infidels.org/library/modern/paul_doland/creator.html.
Festinger, Leon, et al., When Prophecy Fails, a study of cognitive dissonance in those who believe in Prophecy.
Pearce, J., The Biology of Transcendence. Rochester, Park Street Press, 2002.
Pellegrino, C., Ghosts of Vesuvius. New York, HarperCollins Publishers, 2004.
Rapture Ready. 🔗raptureready.com.
Religious Tolerance. 🔗religioustolerance.org.
Prophesy not unique: See Clairvoyance/Premonition under chapter 35 resources.
Barker, J. C., Premonitions of the Aberfan Disaster. Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, 55 (1967), 189-237.
Behe, G., Titanic, Psychic Forewarnings of a Tragedy. Wellingborough, Patrick Stephens, 1988.
Bem, Dr. Daryl, 🔗news.cornell.edu/stories/2010/12/study-looks-brains-ability-see-future; 🔗skeptiko.com/daryl-bem-responds-to-parapsychology-debunkers.
Boundary Institute. Premonitions of 9/11. 1 Feb 2008. 🔗boundaryinstitute.org/premon911.htm.
Brennan, J. H., Time Travel. St. Paul, Llewellyn Worldwide, 2003.
Cayce, Edgar, 🔗edgarcayce.org/the-readings/ancient-mysteries/seven-prophecies-that-came-true.
Cox, W. E., Precognition, An Analysis, II. Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research, 50 (1956), 99-109.
🔗discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time.
Dossey, Larry, MD, The Science of Premonitions.
Dunne, B. J., et al., Precognitive Remote Perception. Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory (Report), Aug 1983.
Feeling the Future, A Meta-analysis of 90 Experiments on the Anomalous Anticipation of Random Future Events. [Under Editorial Review]. 🔗dbem.org/FF Meta-analysis 6.2.pdf; Experimental evidence for anomalous retroactive influences on cognition and affect. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 100, 407-425. 🔗dbem.org/FeelingFuture.pdf.
🔗hogueProphecy.com.
Honorton, C., et al., Future-telling, A meta-analysis of forced-choice precognition experiments. Journal of Parapsychology, 53 (1989), 281-209.
Mossbridge, Julie, Ph.D., The Premonition Code, The Science of Precognition. noetic.org.
Must psychologists change the way they analyze their data? A response to Wagenmakers, Wetzels, Borsboom, & van der Maas (2011). 🔗dbem.org/ResponsetoWagenmakers.pdf.
One Mind, How Our Individual Mind Is Part of a Greater Consciousness and Why It Matters (Explains why premonition and other seemingly extraordinary abilities are actually ordinary in the underlying reality.)
Paquette, Andy, Dreamer, 20 years of psychic dreams and how they changed my life. 🔗popsci.com/science/article/2012-09/book-excerpt-there-no-such-thing-time.
Response to Alcock's "Back from the Future, Comments on Bem." 🔗dbem.org/ResponsetoAlcock.pdf.
Rosenblatt, Marty, Physicist, 🔗appliedprecog.com.
Saltmarsh, H., The Future and Beyond, Paranormal Foreknowledge and Evidence of Personal Survival from Cross Correspondences. Charlottesville, Hampton Roads, 2003.
Schmeidler, G., An Experiment in Precognitive Clairvoyance, Part I, The Main Results and Part 2, The Reliability of The Scores. Journal of Parapsychology, 28 (1964), 1-27.
Snow, C. B., Mass Dreams of the Future. Sedona, Deep Forest Press, 1989.
Stratton, J. A., Electromagnetic Theory. New York, McGraw-Hill, 1941.
Time travel, See resources below.
Townshend, C. H., Indisputable clairvoyance of M. Adolphe Didier. The Zoist, XI, Apr 1853, 75-78.
Townshend, C. H., Recent Clairvoyance of Alexis Didier. The Zoist, IX, Jan 1852, 402-411.
Universe is timeless, permitting access both ways. 🔗platonia.com/barbour_emergence_of_time.pdf.

Nemos:

Psychics are debunked. And there's a million dollars waiting for you if you can prove otherwise.

Religion

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?

2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?

4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

WYSONG: Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

Given that nobody likes to have their sure religious beliefs overturned, defenses against challenge are usually ready and waiting. Although faith, not reason, is the mainstay of religious defense, reason is attempted at every opportunity. Using all the presuppositions inherent in the Bible-based religion I attached to, I became pretty good at defending my beliefs and, sadly, convincing others. That is until I opened my mind. Then, the full array of facts and unbridled reason made my clever arguments seem silly. I had fallen victim to confirmation bias, that is, entertaining only those facts and ideas which comported with my preexisting beliefs.

Here are some of the defensive arguments I used when a believer and my opponent has used in this debate.

Prophesy

Bible prophesy as proof of Creator authorship is defeated by the thousands of fulfilled predictions/prophesies by people who have nothing to do with the Bible. (See Part 7).

The Waiting for "New Light" Argument

To those who, in effect, worship a holy book, contradictions, conflicts with ethics, injustice, absurdities, and obscure passages are attributed to "spiritual blindness." "Divine mysteries" veiled in the mysterious sacred words must wait for "new light" to be shed through special anointed human religious agents.

However, the ever-present prospect of "new light" effectively inoculates holy books against any possible disproof. Making a holy book unfalsifiable also makes it unverifiable.

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The "Out of Date" Argument

The previous parts of this debate outlining how the Bible conflicts with reason, facts, consistency, and ethics create a terrible dilemma for believers. In defense, they (and I for a time) say the "Old Testament law" is out of date and replaced by the "new law" of Jesus and Paul. (Romans 10; 2; Corinthians 3) Those guys of the past, well, you know, boys will be boys. (Similarly, Islamic scholars solve such problems in their holy book by what they call abrogation, meaning the more recent texts trump the older ones. Jihadists disagree.)

The Bible Itself, however, says all of it must be embraced and specifically forbids selective cherry-picking. The New Testament refers to the Hebrew (old) books and says: "All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." (2Timothy 3:16) "You received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God." (1Thessalonians 2:13).

Everything in the Bible is to be exactly obeyed upon penalty of death or worse: "See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it." (Deuteronomy 12:32; also note: Joshua 1:8; Isaiah 40:8: Leviticus 19:37, Matthew 5:17; Luke 16:17; John 7:23; 10:17-19,35; 1Corinthians 4:6; Hebrews 11; 1Peter 1:20,21). "The word of our God stands forever" (Isaiah 40:8); "The scripture cannot be broken." (John 10:35; see also Hebrews 11:1-39; Matthew 5:17)

The Allegory, Metaphor, Symbolism, and Context Argument

As I look back, I was able to set aside virtually every criticism of the Bible because I had allowed myself to be convinced by superficial proofs that it was inerrant. Once you do that you're bulletproof.

For example, the literal meaning of words is taken until there is a conflict with fact, science, or other words in the book. Then the interpretation is groomed with arguments about symbolism and context to make the problem disappear. It's like making a doctrinal smoothie—a little of this, a little of that, a lot of the most delicious, and something to mask the bitter taste of contradictions and nonsense.

All words permit multiple meanings, particularly when parsing ancient languages. This can result in obvious virtue (like not slaughtering unbelievers) being a crime, and obvious crime (like stoning to death a disobedient son, offering a daughter to be raped, etc.) being a virtue.

But this means the Bible has no certainty or ethical standard. And certainty, unlike human-created words, is what the Creator is, as evidenced by the natural laws governing us and the universe.

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The Religious Experience Argument

Many believe their religion is affirmed by the feeling of holiness and connection to god when reading their holy book, the joy of conversion, the results of prayer, or being transformed from a wayward life when "born again." Such feelings, and then any benefit that coincidentally may come to life, are considered all the proof needed that holy providence is at play.

But feel-good personal experiences are not a compelling reason for committed religious belief. After all, people can experience transformation by getting a new job, being in love, having children, or having quarters gush out of a slot machine. Some never feel closer to god than when their children martyr themselves blowing themselves up in a shopping mall, guaranteeing the family a certain seat in heaven and a paycheck from sponsors of terrorism.

If you feel good, saved, excited, or fulfilled, that's true to you. But it has nothing to do with the rest of reality—where the real world and Creator of the universe reside.

Arguments from Authority, Name Dropping, and History

Many believers cite religious authorities as proof. There are religious scholars, departments in universities, and countless books that defend human-made religions. Famous people, scientists, Ph.D.'s, and rulers can be quoted who espouse belief. Then there are thousands of years of religious history, Cathedrals, traditions, beautiful music, and community. The Bible is the best-selling book in history, with over five billion sold and distributed. The Koran has sold about 800 million.

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But, of course, none of that proves anything other than the ability of humans to create ideas and institutions that other humans follow. Truth, on the other hand, is revealed by reason, evidence, natural law, experience, and conscience which have nothing to do with following other people's ideas or commands as set forth in the Bible.

Resources for further research:

Agards Bible Timeline. 18 Jun 2008. 🔗agards-bible-timeline.com.
Bageant, J., What the Left Behind Series Really Means. News Intelligence Analysis. 13 Dec 2005.
Halsell, G., Prophecy and Politics. Village Voice, 18 May 2004.

Nemos:

... in progress ...

Nemos:

Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

. . . in progress . . .

Wysong:

... in progress ...

Religion

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?

2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?

4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

Wysong:

Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

Most religious believers, unlike Dustin Nemos, don't bother with the nitty-gritty details and work required to argue their beliefs intelligently. Instead, they claim faith, which, by definition, requires no defense. Even highly intelligent people working in the sciences and applied fields where strict proof and evidence are required will proudly proclaim religious faith. (While, if they are theistic evolutionists, denying that faith has anything to do with evolution.)

Using faith as a reason to believe is like saying I can believe in any stupid thing I want and that's as legitimate as the laws of geometry or the wrongness of murder.

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If we are ever to have a chance at a better world, we must agree that it is always wrong to believe anything on insufficient evidence. Faith without fact is unreasonable. (Hell is best described as a world without reason.) Far better it would be if we simply said we don't know when we don't.

Thomas Jefferson admonished: "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong . . . you must recur to the pretensions of the (Bible) writer to inspiration from God. Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong, as that its falsehood would be more improbable than a change in the laws of nature."

During my Bible-believing days I tried to apply reason as best I could and cited scriptures in support, such as: ". . . do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions . . ." (1John 4:1) Also: "always be ready to make a defense before everyone . . ." (1Peter 3:15; see also Proverbs 14:15; Romans 12:2; 1Thessalonians 5:21) My opponents could, of course, site completely contradictory passages hailing the virtues of blind faith: "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." (Hebrews 11:1; etc.)

Well into the nineteenth-century, American citizens could be jailed for the blasphemy of Bible criticism. The famous evangelist, Spurgeon, summed up the obligation of the dutiful flock by saying, "If the whole of all evil and wickedness were rolled up into one gigantic black ball of corruption it would be less than the sin of unbelief." To this day there remains a lingering paranoia about being critical of holy books and religions.

Belief in belief has the bonus of being politically correct. Somehow, the mere proclamation, "I believe and have faith . . ." is supposed to garner respect and end any dispute. Everything is open to question, just not faith.

But forgotten in this zeal to protect and justify faith is the fact that it is belief that starts the evil. The body merely repeats the impressions that have been made upon it by the mind's beliefs.

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Faith and Belief in Search of Facts

Although holy book believers will proudly proclaim their faith-based belief, wearing it as an unchallengeable badge of honor, they inwardly crave facts and evidence to counter criticism and quiet their own suppressed doubts. That's why so much current energy and hope is invested in holy book archeology and scientific creationism.

It's a human failing, called confirmation bias, that we consider and remember evidence that is consistent with our beliefs and ignore evidence that might disconfirm them. It's like looking at a crowd and picking out only our friends.

Consider how reason has been used by Bible believers to chase belief about the shape of the Earth. Isaiah (written about 600-700 B.C.) speaks of the "circle" of the Earth (Isaiah 40:22). That is taken as proof of Bible inspiration since the Earth was not supposedly proven to be a circle until it was circumnavigated in the sixteenth century. But even that Bible proof is wrong since the Earth is supposedly an oblate speroid.

Although the interpretation of that scripture is now taken to be obvious, the round Earth interpretation only came after the sixteenth-century discovery. This is true to form since never do holy books forecast a scientific discovery. Rather, verses are found post hoc—after a scientific discovery— to make the holy book seem like it was accurate science all along, but we were just too sinful or spiritually dumb to get it.

In fact, prior to the supposed discovery of a round Earth and long after Isaiah was written, Bible texts were used to persecute anyone who did not believe the Earth was flat, a disc, had corners, was geometrical, stationary, floated on water, rested on foundations, and, like the Jewish Tabernacle, was the center of the universe.

Moreover, consider that in the above Isaiah 40 verse, the Hebrew word for circle is hwg (chûgh). This is a different word than the Hebrew word for ball or sphere, which is duwr, as used in Isaiah 22:18 (not referring to the shape of the Earth).

It would, therefore, seem that in Isaiah 40 the circle referred to is like a disc that can be seen by standing in an area where one can look to the horizon without obstruction for 360 degrees. As one turns in a circle to view the horizon, there appears to be a perfect circle.

This corresponds to other verses implying that the Earth is a circular disc. For example, in Revelation 1:7 Jesus is said to be coming on a cloud and that "every eye will see him," which, of course, would not be possible for the people on the other side of a round Earth.

During the Dark Ages when the clergy used the Bible to wield absolute power and dictate finality on all matters, the idea of a flat Earth was law. Even today, a twentieth-century Bible-based religion, the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church, fervently holds to a flat Earth cosmology and cites numerous scriptures as proof. (Job 38:12-14; Matthew 4:1-12; Daniel 4: 10,11; etc.) Samuel Rowbotham, a modern-day flat-Earther cites 76 different Bible verses that deny a round Earth.

Even if the Bible taught a spherical Earth, or, more accurately an oblate speroid, that would not be a reason to attribute the book to the Creator. Belief in a round Earth predates the Bible by thousands of years. It was an inference from observation by ancients like Aristotle, Eratosthenes, and Ptolemy observing how the stars and moon circled the Earth, the outline of the Earth on the moon during the lunar cycle, and the disappearance and reappearance of ships on the horizon.

For some Bible believers, however, the Earth remained flat. Only with the explorations of Columbus and Magellan in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was the round Earth given religious standing.

Moreover, it was even pronounced that questions about the exact nature of the heavens were wasted effort since the Bible said there was going to be a "new heavens and new Earth." In the meantime, St. Philastrius pronounced that it was heresy not to believe that god hung the stars in the sky each evening and took them down in the morning.

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Galileo, persecuted for claiming the Earth orbited the sun, rather than vice versa, was not absolved by the Catholic Church until 1992. And even today, defenders of the Bible's geocentric view are putting forth selective facts and arguments that the Earth is the focal point of the entire universe. (see: theprinciplemovie.com)

(In fact, the truth about cosmology is not determined by religion. It's made apparent by facts, reason, and natural law. That analysis clearly shows the falsity of the current evolutionary-materialistic model: A big bang of nothing created an infinite meaningless universe containing atomic dust that gravitationally accreted into heavenly bodies including our Earthball moving in several different directions at 2.8 million mph and holding an atmosphere next to the vacuum of space while spontaneously forming life from primeval sludge that then evolved into complicated rocks called humans with no free will. How this is scientifically refuted is found here: https://www.asifthinkingmatters.com/blog/category/lies-as-big-as-the-universe)

To explain contradictions between the Bible and facts, people of faith say those who read the Bible and believed in a flat and geocentric Earth, and stars hung each evening, just didn't know how to read the text correctly. One gets the sneaking suspicion, however, if discovery had revealed that the Earth was flat and supported by pillars, that the "circle" scripture would be read to mean other than sphere, and the "foundation" scriptures would be heralded as proof of the Bible's science.

Faith is like a talisman that can change any contrary word or fact into support.

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The Source of Faith and Belief

Faith and belief are so handy because they are immune to disproof. By definition, faith and belief do not need to be tied to reality, and reality is the only thing that can disprove anything.

We hate the confusion and heavy lifting of self-responsibility, foresight-driven thinking, reflecting upon what is within, sorting through evidence, evaluating all options, and making decisions for ourselves. We hate doubt and like the ease of being told what to do to be safe now and in the hereafter. We want, like fast food, answers in an easy-open package. A book, a material idol that materializes (anthropomorphizes) the Creator, and religion experts to explain what the rules of the biggest dad of all are, fills the bill.

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Truth is Anti-Faith and Anti-Belief

Accountants, lawyers, factory workers, taxi drivers, carpenters, doctors, moms, dads, and kids use facts and reason in going about daily life and business. We unscrew caps counter-clockwise, place food in the mouth and not the ears, add and subtract in checkbooks, don't walk into traffic, and push the brakes when we want to stop. What is it that comes over us such that once the topic of religion is brought up a lever is switched in the brain so that rational discourse ends, logical action stops, eyes glaze over, ears seal off, and the mouth spews only unctuous pre-learned incantations?

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No, faith and belief are not badges of honor. Any belief not honestly derived, as well as being constantly available for dismissal by open inquiry, is one long sin.

Life is supposed to be an adaptable, dynamic process. Not a living death where we select a belief state (always put forth by authority figures) to shelter us from the tides of inquiry and criticism. Bertrand Russell said, "Have no respect for the authority of others, for there are always contrary authorities to be found."

Contrary to faith, things of the Creator are clear, obvious, and unerring. Faith, on the other hand, is the uncoupling of our brains and conscience from the regularity and reality of the world. In other words, faith is credulity.

As such, faith in the Bible is opposed to the Creator, the epitome of reason and truth. Embracing it is therefore heresy. It is in opposition to the very Creator people think they are confirming.

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Resources for further study:

Dawkins, R., The God Delusion. New York, Houghton Mifflin Company, 2006.
Ehrman, B. D., Lost Christianities, The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew. New York, Oxford University Press, 2003.
Ehrman, B., Lost Christianities. New York, Oxford University Press, 2003.
Flemings, H., A Philosophical Scientific and Theological Defense for the Notion that a God Exists. Lanham, University Press of America, 2003.
Harris, S., The End of Faith, Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason. New York, W. W. Norton and Company, Inc, 2004.
Harris, S., The End of Faith, Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason. New York, W. W. Norton and Company, Inc, 2004.
Harris, S., The End of Faith. New York, W. W. Norton & Company, Inc, 2004.
Leidloff, J., The Continuum Concept. Reading, Addison Wesley Press, 1977.
Osman, A., Jesus in the House of the Pharaohs, The Essene Revelations on the Historical Jesus. Rochester, Bear & Company, 1992.
Pearce, J., The Biology of Transcendence. Rochester, Park Street Press, 2002.
Pearce, J., The Death of Religion and the Rebirth of Spirit, A Return to the Intelligence of the Heart. Rochester, Park Street Press, 2007.
Schadewald, R. J., The Flat-Earth Bible. Reprinted from The Bulletin of the Tychonian Society, 44 (1987).
Schneider, R. J., Does the Bible teach a spherical earth? Berea college, ASA3 org; from PSCF 53 (Sep 2001), 159-169.
Spencer, R., The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades). Washington, D. C., Regnery Publishing, Inc, 2005.
Teeple, H., How Did Christianity Really Begin? Evanston, Religion and Ethics Institute, 1992.
Vining, M., Jesus the Wicked Priest, How Christianity Was Born of An Essene Schism. Rochester, Bear & Company, 2008.
Wolff, R., Original Wisdom. Rochester, Inner Traditions, 2001.
Wysong, R. L., Living Life As If Thinking Matters. Midland, Inquiry Press, 2008.

Nemos:

... in progress ...

Nemos:

Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

. . . in progress . . .

Wysong:

... in progress ...

Religion

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?

2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?

4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

Wysong:

Is the Bible the source of goodness?

If any religionist is asked to describe an ethical precept that is unknown without their religion, they will be incapable of doing so. The only thing unique to religions are human-made stories, doctrines, rituals, and equating, murder, torture, animal cruelty and ritualistic sacrifice, maiming, genocide, racism, and ignorance with morality. (See Part 2)

Concerning the Bible, Adam and Eve had no such holy book, nor did Noah, Abraham, or any of the people mentioned there. People were not without ethical direction before Moses descended from the mountain with the Ten Commandments. Moreover, only three of the Ten Commandments—shalt not steal, kill, or lie—qualifies as ethics. But that doesn't single out the Bible as unique since no society has existed or could exist without these prohibitions.

Some of the Commandments are impossible to comply with, such as not coveting (desiring) things. That's condemning people for thoughts that pop into their heads. Other Commandments about the name of god, a sabbath, graven images(idols), and swearing, have nothing at all to do with ethics.

Other Bible rules also don't make sense if followed through. For example, "love your neighbor as yourself" (Mathew 22:39) would make functioning, even survival, impossible. Imagine trying to care about every aspect of all your neighbors' lives like you care about yours.

Spiritual movements and leaders such as Lao-tze, Zoroaster, Confucius, Hinayana, Zen Buddhism, Jainism, Shankara, Padmasambhava, Nagarjuna, Epictetus, and Longchenpa claim no Western-style god or inspired holy book, and yet represent highly moral systems. Even diehard atheists and agnostics feel an ethical pull.

The fact of the matter is that bad, as well as good people, emerge out of every religion and every society.

The poor farmer in a third-world country tied to the plow from sunup to sundown eking out a living for his family, and the primitive in the middle of the bush without any reading skills, must still be capable of discerning right from wrong.

And that is the case. The Senoi of the Malay jungle live a highly ethical and benevolent life where unconditional love is just a fact. The Yequana aborigines of the upper Cuara River basin in Venezuela demonstrate similar wisdom without compulsion. These remote people have no formal religions, codes, holy books, prophets, priests, or other such trappings.

Contrary to the refrain that religion is the source of goodness, throughout history, slitting throats, warring, and denial of basic human rights are the signatures of human-made holy book religions. Right today, Sunday schools teach children to celebrate in song the slaughter of non-Jews at Jericho, the annihilation of humans and creatures by a world flood, the killing of innocent first-born children, and to look forward to an Armageddon where everyone who does not believe as they do is slaughtered.

Go through the inspection at an airport to be reminded of the horrendous deeds perpetrated by human-made religions. The Qur'an can be read to make it moral to fly planes into office buildings, behead nonbelievers, kill women who are raped, marry nine-year-old little girls, cut the clitoris and labia off girls (circumcision/infibulation) and sew the vagina all but closed, only to be broken open on the wedding night.

The Bible justifies killing whole populations in unbelieving cities, brides who are not virgin, adulterers, those who take the Lord's name in vain, those who disobey a mother or father, and young boys who aren't circumcised— and done so "correctly" by a Jewish mohel biting the foreskin off so blood is let.

Slavery is a Bible practice. In large part, it's justified by Bible racism. The granddaddy of all racisms is Jews writing a Bible, claiming god wrote it, and then having that god say he chose them over all other races. (Nah, that wouldn't be coincidence, would it?) The "mark of Cain" and "Curse of Ham" are also Biblical justifications. Then there's the story of Noah and his family being the only people to survive the worldwide flood. They are thought to be white. Therefore, it's reasoned, black, yellow, and brown races must have been on board, but way back with the animals! (Yes, yes, I know there are passages contrary to slavery. But that makes the point that any form of morality can be derived from the Bible.)

Muslims and Hindus war in Pakistan and India. Jonestown cultists committed suicide following their Bible-thumping leader. Protestants and Catholics kill one another in the British-Irish conflict. Catholic priests (including modern day), supposedly obedient to the Biblical doctrine of celibacy, have sexually abused and scarred for life innumerable children. Meanwhile, the church hierarchy and many parishioners turn a blind eye. (See the documentary movie, The Spotlight.)

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Other religions condemn these horrors, but the underlying cause is largely ignored: Islamists are simply acting on belief and faith in a holy book.

If today's Jews and Christians followed their holy books (as they have in the past and are commanded to by the books), they would be engaged in similar horrors.

True, many now put a liberal patina on holy books, but literate people without coaches read scriptural urgings that clearly encourage the killing of unbelievers and those who commit the sin of reason.

In other words, morality is not a reason to embrace religion, it's a reason to flee from it.

RELIGIONS ARE ETHICALLY TAMED BY SECULAR GOVERNMENTS

Religious atrocities are held in check today because the secular state has stepped in to forbid it. Where religion can dictate its own terms, fuse eschatology (end-time guessing) with the state, and make demands people cannot refuse, heads getting lopped off and religious war and torture of heretics are still a part of life.

Even in modern societies, religions bless troops and condemn those being blessed on the other side. Nations that do not benefit from such helpful guidance could fare at least as well.

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It's a sad fact of history that the words that divide people and then unite them in butchering one another are often traceable to the religious institutions and holy books humans create.

AMERICA'S VIRTUE IS NOT DUE TO RELIGION

Christians and Jews brag that America's greatness is the result of Judeo-Christian principles. The fact is, the unsavory history of Judeo-Christian religions led America's founders to write a Constitution that separated church and state. It doesn't even once cite or refer to any holy book. Moreover, the very first thing mentioned in the Bill of Rights is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

People were fleeing to the New World in search of both freedom of religion and freedom from it. Most Founding Fathers understood this and created a secular (meaning nonreligious, not godless) nation based on freedom and the inherent "God-given" morality within each individual. "God," for most of the founders, was a secular Creator.

THE GOOD RELIGIONS DO DOES NOT EXCUSE THE BAD

This does not deny that religions can do good. For example, even in Islamic states that promote terrorism and brutal punishment for disobedience, social services, and charitable giving rivals that of any other religion or nation. The same is true for Christianity and Judaism even before the secular state tamed them. However, religions and holy books that justify both atrocity and benevolence provide no clear ethical guidance that should supersede one's conscience, nor are they reflective of the pure unequivocal justice of the Creator.

Nevertheless, nobody likes uncertainty. Thus, there is a natural inclination to follow systematized and formalized morality. People want clear and easy, right and wrong, black and white. We don't want to have to think and probe our consciences: "Somebody just tell me what to do so I can check off my moral chores, avoid god's ire, and get on with my life."

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Religions come to the rescue by providing grocery lists of dos and don'ts to check off each day. But does it fit any semblance of rationality that guidance from the Creator of the universe as to right and wrong should come from such stories as an angel Gabriel reciting text to the illiterate Mohammed in a cave in 610 CE, or Joseph Smith burying his face in a white top hat in the 1800s to read god's Mormon messages from a "seer" stone, or Moses climbing a cloud-covered mountain and remaining there for forty days to obtain the Ten Commandments written on stone by the finger of god?

Such untenable stories serve only to create huge worldwide religious institutions with immense power over people's minds. Dutiful believers can then employ the Nuremberg defense, regardless of the damage done by following religious rules: "I was only following god's orders."

GOODNESS COMES FROM FREE WILL AND CONSCIENCE, NOT FOLLOWING OTHERS

It's human to seek to be good. That's a consequence of free will, not an original sin putting us in need of salvation. The struggle between right and wrong, good and bad, underlies and pervades every religious, political, legal, and social institution, and has from time immemorial. Equity, justice, propriety, social graces, respect, honesty, and so on weigh on each of us personally every day because we have been given the gifts of conscience and free choice.

On the other hand, thousands of years of cathedrals, temples, churches, mosques, pyramids, Inquisitions, mummification, animal sacrifices, self-mutilation, witch trials, holy book reading, wall wailing, breast-beating, flagellation, jihads, fatwas, idolatry, sacrifices, converting savages, witch trials, celibacy, polygamy, circumcision, infibulation, not sparing the rod, stonings, suttees, ecumenism, parochial schools, catechisms, beheadings, conquistadors, pilgrimages, holy books in motel room drawers, drawing and quartering, eye and tongue removals, forbidden foods, special clothing, tithing, speaking in tongues, poison drinking, dancing with snakes, indulgences, evangelizing, chants, excommunications, hymn singing, hermeneutics (deciphering holy books written in arcane languages), eschatology (attempting to figure out from holy books when the world will end), missions, confessions, wafer eating, wine drinking, prayer in the right direction, penance, and heretic burning have not brought us closer to truth, made us better people, nor improved our lot.

Religions impose the impossible task of eliminating uncontrollable thoughts ("thou shalt not covet") and leaving people forever guilty and condemned for having them. Our measure should be what we choose to do, not by thoughts we have no control over.

Note how the religious leaders writing the Bible, from the get-go, attempt to deny free choice and conscience. Eve's "original sin" was to eat an apple from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." (Gen 2:17) To know good and evil is to exercise one's own conscience. This was painted by the Bible writers as so egregiously criminal that all humans, billions and billions of us, supposedly inherit it as an "original sin" and the cause of all depravity and death.

This mysterious passage becomes crystal clear when the true authors are recognized, namely human religious leaders. These leaders didn't want people to decide for themselves. Their goal was power and control, meaning they alone, not the people, were to have the "knowledge of good and evil." Proof that is the case is the supposed knowledge of good and evil laid out as rules and regulations in their holy book.

Actually, the ultimate sin is not to eat the apple, meaning to follow other humans (and their human-made religious "knowledge of good and evil") rather than one's own Creator-given conscience.

When people come to believe that following the rules of others constitutes their duty to ethics, they abandon the best moral governor of all, conscience. We must freely author our actions.

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Yes, we all struggle with nasty thoughts and imperfect actions, but we almost always intuitively know how we should behave. If we don't know and act improperly, consequences always follow and we make better choices next time. Such experience is the best teacher of all. And Earth life gives us plenty of that.

Up to a certain age, children have little empathy or ethics. They simply follow the commands of elders for fear of punishment. Adulthood brings with it free choice and an active conscience.

However, unlike a hairy chest or breasts that come automatically with maturity, activating free choice and conscience is a choice. We can remain like children and look to humans, institutions, and their holy books (surrogate moms and dads) for rules to live by, or listen to the voice of conscience and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong—eat the apple—implanted by the Creator.

We are also given reason and logic. Engaging those truth-deciphering skills is as much a matter of ethics as not lying, stealing, or harming others. Without truth, we live in a lie and contribute to a false world that ultimately brings harm and disrespects the Creator.

We may be diamonds in the rough and struggle with making goodness manifest. But it's always there, urging if we will only listen to the voice within, rather than follow others and their holy books.

Nemos:

... in progress ...

Nemos:

Is the Bible the source of goodness?

. . . in progress . . .

Wysong:

... in progress ...

Religion

Questions to be debated:

1. Who or what is the Creator?

2. Is the Bible the source of morality and justice?

3. Does the Bible comport with the reasonable and truthful reality the Creator is responsible for?

4. Is the Bible consistent and not contradictory as are the Creator's natural laws?

5. Does Jesus prove the Bible is from the Creator?

6. Is the Bible an amalgam of pagan religions?

7. Does prophesy prove the Bible is from the Creator?

8. Is there a rational defense for the claim that the Bible is from the Creator?

9. Is faith a reason to believe the Bible is from the Creator?

10. Is the Bible the source of goodness?

Disclaimer: This information has been created solely for educational purposes. It is the sharing of knowledge gained through decades of Dr. Wysong's experience and research. Dr. Wysong is not engaged in giving medical advice or services. The information provided is not to be construed as a relationship of diagnostician/prescriber (Dr. Wysong) and patient (you), but as educator (Dr. Wysong) and information seeker (you). Dr. Wysong's information is not intended as medical advice or to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional. The reader understands that everything done or tried as a result from reading this information or anything on the related websites is at his or her own risk. Dr. Wysong and his staff shall have neither liability nor responsibility to any person or entity with respect to any loss, damage or injury caused, or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the information provided. It is fully the reader's choice as to how they act or don't act upon the educational information Dr. Wysong presents.

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