The following is my response to a post by Christine Massey and a subsequent exchange. Her work has been cited in this newsletter showing the dubious existence of the C19 virus.

However, in a post on her website, she seemed to claim that no infectious disease exists.

This is my response and the beginning of the exchange between us.

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WYSONG comments are bordered in blue.

MASSEY comments are bordered in yellow.

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Wysong: 

Agreed that the C19 virus does not likely exist. Agreed that other contagions promoted by big pharma/ government/media (all one and the same thing) may not exist.

But I have not heard an adequate non-infection explanation for kids coming home sick from school and then the rest of the family coming down with the same symptomatology.

I have also seen kennel cough in dogs spread like wildfire in healthy kennels when a new kennel cough dog was introduced.

I have also cultured bacteria, tested antibiotics against them, and used the antibiotics that inhibited growth on culture plates to cure the ill animal from which the bacteria was taken.

Hard to explain these as nutritional, environmental, coincidental, psychosomatic, or stress related.

If you can explain, please post.

Massey: 

Even if you could show that all dogs with kennel cough syndrome, and only dogs with the syndrome, have any Bordetella, correlation wouldn't prove causation. And I would be very surprised if you could even show that much. And there is no reason to assume there is 1 and only 1 causative factor - that's germ theory conditioning at work. Have you observed said microbe jumping from dog to dog and causing this condition? Again, a kid coming home from school and then everyone getting sick is not proof of contagion, far from it. We're been conditioned to blame "germs" for all manner of conditions, yet there is no science supporting germ theory (if I'm wrong please cite a valid scientific study). Pretty bizarre/suspicious given all the emphasis on "germs". But you're free to think/assume whatever you like. I'm here discussing the lack of science where we're told science exists, not "maybes" and expectations. I'm not aware of any science showing that parasites cause disease. Feel free to share some if you are. Again, the onus is not on us to do anything, the onus is on those making the positive claims to prove their point. They've had plenty of time to do it.

Wysong: 

Thank you for your thoughts.

I am not the enemy. Defending germ theory is not my mission. Truth is the goal.

Your work in demonstrating that nobody can produce an isolated sample of a C19 virus is appreciated and very important. The absence of the virus along with a fake PCR test producing false "cases," no pathognomically identified C19 disease, no proven C19 deaths, and the flu and other diseases and deaths being misbranded C19 is proof of fraud.

It should wake people up that government and other institutions with power and monied objectives should not be trusted.

That said, diseases exist. They are dependent variable realities. It is reasonable to conclude they have independent variable causes. All effects have a cause.

That is the reality faced by anyone trying to bring health and healing to people and animals. Human and veterinary physicians try (hopefully) to do what creates positive results based on what was learned in medical school and what experience teaches them over time in practice (the better educator).

Kennel cough (similar syndromes in humans and multiple species) has a cause. For the reasons cited previously, it is reasonable to assume a transmissible agent of some sort. Unlike viruses, Bordetella is an easily identified microbe associated with the disease and can even be found attached to the cilia in the trachea of those affected. Vaccines are produced against it and ostensibly have been proven to be effective. Unlike the c19 virus, Bordetella cultures are readily available.

That's some of the compelling evidence fitting the circumstance of the disease.

Nothing else I have heard that has even been imagined fits the circumstance of the disease. Nor have any scientific studies been done proving alternate causes.

So, the question is, even without any rigorous scientific studies, what is the most likely cause that can be addressed to cure or ameliorate the reality of this and other apparently transmissible diseases?

As for parasites, many of which are visible to the naked eye and can even be handled and dissected, their relationship to disease is not easy to dismiss.

Tapeworms, roundworms, hookworms, coccidia, and others are clearly associated with disease when they multiply to a point. Elimination of them brings health and healing.

The life cycle of these agents is known and documented.

For example, heartworm is proven to be passed from mosquitoes to dogs (and other species) and can result in adult worms lodging in the heart and threatening life. They can be removed by heart surgery pulling out worms up to a foot or more long. The result is a return to health for the animal.

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No scientific proof is necessary when the heart is obviously choked with worms any more than scientific proof is needed to believe a cut carotid artery must be occluded and repaired for deadly hypovolemic shock not to occur.

The fact of disease is unassailable. The fact that there is a cause for every disease is also unassailable. There can't be one without the other. To deny that heartworms cause disease requires the absurd conclusion that failing hearts filled with worms is due to something other than the worms.

All life on Earth requires or detracts in some manner from other life. To think the only predators we need to fear are other humans, lions, snakes, etc. does not fit nature itself.

The anti-pathogen position needs to be modified to accommodate such realities or credibility is threatened.

Massey: 

I don't know anyone says who says that dis-eases don't exist, or that there's aren't "independent variable" causes. Of course there are causes. Observing effects is not proof that "germs" caused the effects, or that there is 1 and only 1 causal factor. The germ theory people have yet to prove their case. What is reasonable about assuming a cause, especially when no microbe has been shown to cause any disease? I think that such an assumption is simply a result of conditioning, which is much more convenient for perps and controllers than for us to look at toxins, stress, etc. "Ostensibly have been proven"?! Show me the science! The existence of a particle is not proof that it causes disease. Associations are not proof of causation. This isn't rocket science. Please show me the actual science, if it exists. Otherwise all you have are assumptions of causation.

Again, believe whatever you want. We've been led to believe that germ theory is actually backed by science and it's not true at all, to my knowledge.

Wysong: 

What has been presented is based upon fact, not belief. Belief is the enemy of knowing and truth.

These facts should not be dismissed out of hand if truth matters.

1. My clinical experience with kennel cough and that of countless veterinarians, research facilities, and kennel operators around the world show it to be transmissible. An argument does not defeat direct experience.

2. A study by Boehringer divided 34 eight-week-old dogs into two groups:
   -17 were vaccinated against Bordetella bronchiseptica
   -17 controls were not vaccinated. (source)
   -13 months later they were exposed to Bordetella and observed twice daily for two weeks.
   
   -Over the two weeks:
   ►13 of the 17 controls (not vaccinated) showed signs of kennel cough when exposed to Bordetella
   
   
   
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   ►All 17 of the vaccinated showed no signs of kennel cough
   
   
   
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   This study, not belief, strongly suggests:
   -The vaccine was protective
   -Bordetella causes kennel cough
   
   No study exists proving in a similar fashion that any terrain-independent variable can explain the existence of kennel cough.

3. The life cycle of heartworm is definitively known, not believed.
   
   
   
   ⌕ Click to enlarge

4. Hearts filled with heartworms (Dirofilaria immitis) cause disease and death. This is known, not believed, by me and hundreds of thousands of practicing veterinarians, veterinary pathologists, and veterinary parasitologists.
   
   The onus is indeed on those believing these facts are not true to prove other causation. Diseases manifesting such obvious causation cannot be explained with any conceivable terrain-independent variable.
   
   
   
   ⌕ Click to enlarge

Granted C19 is a fraud and even the entire field of virology is suspect. But that does not obviate clear evidence showing transmissible disease exists.

Otherwise, truth is being thrown out with the dirty viral, covid, government, pharma, bathwater.

Massey: 

You've linked to a document labelled "USDA Summary of Studies Supporting USDA Product Licensure" lol, not an actually study. Hmm, might the "USDA" be biased when it comes to products that they licensed?

And you're ignoring all the facts that don't fit the contagion myth.

And I ask again, did you actually observe a "germ" jump from one animal to another and cause illness? Or did you simply observe animals getting sick and assume contagion?

The only onus is on those making positive claims (you claiming causation by a microbe and contagion).

Wysong: 

The study cited is an "actual study" reviewed by the USDA, not performed by it. The results of that study fit the experience of tens of thousands of clinicians, research facilities, kennel operations, and animal owners around the world.

Animals and humans become ill. That is a fact we both agree on.

Illness having a cause or causes is also a point of agreement.

A few proofs of bacterial and parasitic causes and their cures have been given.

Although many things can cause coughing in dogs, the proof that Bordetella is one such cause is compelling.

There is no alternative explanation for hearts filled with worms failing other than the worms.

Please provide any of "all the ignored facts that don't fit" the Dirofilaria and Bordetella cause examples given.

And, most importantly, all the facts and studies that do fit causes other than those.

Massey: 

If you want me to comment on the study, please give me the link to the study. A summary from the org that approved the drug is not my idea of reliable info.

You have not provided any science showing proofs of bacterial or parasitic causes.

I guess you must also think that there is no alternative explanation for houses surrounded by firetrucks burning, other than the firetrucks.

I don't have time or energy to keep going in circles with you.

Wysong: 

The circle would have ended in the beginning if there had been proof for alternate ("terrain") causes for the diseases described.

Not only were there none presented better than mine, no "terrain" proof was provided at all.

The obvious bacterial and parasitic causes (like hearts stuffed with worms!) can only be ignored (because of belief), not defeated.

Hopefully, even though we have not benefited from the exchange, others might.

Massey: 

So you need me to post proof that toxins are toxic, seriously? You think others need me to post proof that arsenic, lead, mercury, etc are harmful? That pharma drugs cause side effects? That what we eat matters? That the air we breath matters? That stress adversely affects health? Wow. I'm not the one claiming that a specific thing is the one cause of a specific condition. You're doing that. Hopefully others will see that.

Wysong: 

Yes, it goes without saying that all the factors you mention can cause or contribute to disease.

The claim that there are no infectious or parasitic diseases is at issue.

The enthusiasm for inanimate terrain makes many not understand that microbes and parasites are part of the terrain.

The heartworm and kennel cough examples were used to prove infectious and parasitic diseases exist.

No proof has been given that there is any other cause.

Massey: 

You didn't prove anything, you didn't even cite a study yet. You're just telling stories.

Science isn't a process of making assumptions and then demanding the anyone who disagrees proves you wrong. Logic doesn't work that way either. Think what you like but you're not cited any proof.

Wysong: 

A study and experiential evidence for Bordetella causation were cited. No study or evidence has been put forward to prove a different cause.

A heart from a canine dead from heart malfunction was pictured laden with Dirofilaria worms. No study or evidence was presented that such death could be caused by anything other than the worms.

Since the arguments being put forward are based on belief, this concludes my participation unless countering proofs, logic, or evidence are presented.

Massey: 

You did not cite a title, authors, journal, nothing just a summary from the agency that approved a related drug. I don't need to disprove anything, that's not how burden of proof works. Simply cite a study backing up your claim. You've left so many comments but none with evidence. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

Wysong: 

No reply.